How Babies Learn And Develop – Resources For Parents and Caregivers on Infant and Toddler Learning
On this episode of the Learn With Less podcast, Ayelet sits down with Brooke Henson, a long-time listener of the Learn With Less podcast, and mother to Everly who’s now 13-months old at the time of this recording.
Ayelet says, “I’ve had the good fortune of getting to know Brooke over the last year, and I think her perspective, like all of the guests I bring onto the Learn With Less podcast, is one that can help us learn more about ourselves and our own experiences. I asked Brooke to be on today because her story is one that I think resonates with all of us, and her needs and desires as she grew into the incredible parent she is today, reflect exactly why I’ve created the resources you can find here at Learn With Less. I hope you’ll enjoy this great chat with Brooke.”
Quick links mentioned in this episode
Learn With Less® “Parent & Me” Classes for families with infants and toddlers
Learn With Less podcast episode, “Support Development Without Going Crazy“
Text transcript of this episode
Ayelet: Welcome, Brooke, to the Learn With Less podcast, I’m so happy to have you here. We have the good fortune of being able to connect regularly at our Learn With Less® classes and in general online. But I wanted to bring you on the podcast today just to chat a little bit because you’ve been here with me as part of the community and family since actually quite early on in the life of Learn With Less.
So I just thought it was appropriate to bring you on, and since you have been the beneficiary of an advanced copy of the new book, Understanding Your Baby, and you are also a frequent attendee of Learn With Less® “Parent & Me” classes, I thought that maybe it would be nice to hear about your story, what we’ve done together, what Learn With Less has done for you, and just in general, your journey into and through motherhood so far.
Brooke: Thank you so much for having me.
Ayelet: Yeah, welcome! So glad to have you here. So tell us a little bit about your background. You have a now, 13 month old – is that right?
Brooke: Yep, March 3, 2017, Everly is her name, little girl.
Ayelet: That’s great. And tell us… well, I guess we could start, I mean, as much as you’d like to share about how she came into this world, and some of those feelings about your transition into motherhood.
Brooke: Sure! so, I had quite a change when I decided to become a mom. I lived in Denver, Colorado for the last 15 years, and my husband and I decided that we wanted to start our family, and we really wanted to be close to our own families. We’re from Alaska, and that wasn’t really where we wanted to end up. And my parents had just moved to a tiny little town in Idaho, about an hour and a half north of Boise, Idaho. And so we kind of looked at that and decided that we wanted to make the move and be close to them, because my husband works two weeks on, two weeks off in Alaska, so he’s gone half the time.
So, I really wanted to be close to my family to kind of help raise my little one to be. So, we made the move, got pregnant right away which was just a huge blessing, and I was working remotely from my company. I left a very social, high-stress, marketing job and social life… I mean, we lived in downtown Denver – we could go to an Av’s hockey game, a Nuggets basketball game, and a concert, all in three days – and walk there! So it was just… we knew it was going to be a change to move to a new town, and by town, I mean tiny town compared to what Denver had become!
So, not only was I working remotely, from home, in a new city, pregnant, it was a very difficult transition for me, even though that is what we signed up for and wanted. I just kept thinking, like, I can’t wait to have her because of all the moms groups! When you’re pregnant, you’re not technically in the moms group or in the breastfeeding group, or in the xyz… so I felt, like, in this limbo of where to meet new people. So I was really looking forward to having her so I could start going to those mom groups.
Ayelet: Being part of the club!
Brooke: Yeah! I ended up having her 6 weeks early. I had a placental abruption – that’s where your placenta is detached or detaching from your uterus, so very scary birth, and then got… you know, I wasn’t ready! I wasn’t ready in regards to work, I wasn’t ready in regards to the nursery, everything was in boxes, in the room. So, all of that set aside, I had read a lot of books, I felt like I was prepared in that sense. But when she came, I really struggled with what to do with her all day. And, the first few weeks, obviously, you’re just trying to keep them alive.
Ayelet: And yourself alive!
Brooke: But… it wasn’t until about a month in that I felt like I wasn’t maximizing my time. And coming from a very stressful marketing job that I was go, go, go all the time, doing multiple things. I mean, the amount of stuff that I got done in a day at that job is just, I mean, it blows my mind, now!
You look at going from that to staring at this infant, and I just really was… I really had some struggling around how to, you know, make sure that I was doing the best job that I could as a new mom: now that I wasn’t in that marketing position, this was my new job! And I just felt like I didn’t have the resources to know exactly what to do. Even though I had read the books.
Ayelet: What kinds of books had you read? Because a lot of people, when they’re pregnant, and myself included, read all about (if you’re interested in birth) read about birth! Right? What is birth going to be like, because you’ve never done that before.
Brooke: Well, I was scared of birth, so I avoided that topic altogether. I had no birth plan, luckily, because it didn’t go as planned. The books that I read were healthy sleeping… really, the science behind why the babies need the sleep, how much they could be getting, you know, so I really liked knowing why they need the sleep, and that, you know, naptimes are different sleep than nighttime sleep.
I read a lot of breastfeeding stuff because I was planning on breastfeeding, which, also didn’t go as planned. I read a lot on, you know, your first week by week of baby’s first year… so, just kind of the general…
Ayelet: A nice gamut, actually, you were… you were quite “prepared” as it goes!
Brooke: Yeah! I thought!
Ayelet: Right! Exactly! Let’s hear about that.
Brooke: But yeah! I mean, it never really talked about what to do with your baby all day. It talked about what to do for diaper rash. It talked about what to do for a fever, teething, but there wasn’t really anything about connecting with your baby, or skin to skin, or singing, or that stuff. And my mom was, you know, a huge part of the first few weeks – my husband had to go to work, so you know I was watching her with my baby and she was singing songs to her, and doing voices and all… you know, and I was just like, “I don’t even know that nursery rhyme.”
Like, I don’t know the words. So, I just kind of sat back and watched, and the more I watched her, the more I was learning, but, then she’d leave! And so then I was like, oh gosh, you know, should I be singing to her? How often should I be singing to her? Why should I be singing to her? What can I be doing with her right now when she can’t even turn her head. So I was really looking for guidance on that. That’s when I actually found the Learn With Less podcast.
Ayelet: Woohoo!
Brooke: And I’m not sure exactly how I found it. I think I was googling podcasts, because at that time I couldn’t read, right? Because your hands are full. So I needed something in my ear, and wanted it to be baby-related. And then I noticed it was something that I could do with her everyday, and since there are so many episodes, I really went back and started at the beginning.
So, it was something that I could sing the songs, the Hello Song with her, and as you went through, you know, one or two different songs, you know, I would learn them with her – she had no idea what was going on at that time, but it was something I could do for me and for her at the same time. And I really liked that it became part of our routine! So, we did one a day for many days.
And it is funny because if I sing the Hello Song to her now, she stops and she recognizes that song, because she heard it everyday for months! So, as I started listening to that, I remember emailing you, a year ago, and saying, you know, this is exactly what I needed and, you know, I hadn’t really found anything like that, and I felt like I was just really connecting to everything you were saying.
I was part of a lot of Facebook support groups in regards to breastfeeding because I was having a lot of issues with that, breastfeeding groups here in town, and I was meeting new people, but it was just so surface. I didn’t feel like we were really getting down and dirty of like, ok, how are you singing to her in a day? Or what different songs, or any of that stuff. I felt like it was kind of… there were always a few know-it-alls in the room. I don’t know, just didn’t really connect. So, from there, you know, did the whole podcast, and then reached back to you.
And then you had, you know, the whole email program where it was like, oh! You can read more on this and read more on that! So I just kept, I mean I just couldn’t get enough, I was just like, anything you had to offer, I wanted to read. And I started learning a lot! In regards to songs… which, you know, I know it’s not just about music, but at that time, that really was kind of what I was looking for. But also, you know, understanding how she was developing and learning.
And in your book, you mention that we feel more empowered as a parent with the more knowledge that we have about that development… and that couldn’t be more true! I was really good at my job before I had a baby because I knew it inside and out. And when I became a parent, I didn’t feel confident in what I was doing. It felt right, it felt genuine, but I just wanted to make sure I was making the most out of every moment that I was home with her.
Ayelet: Tell me more about that empowerment. What did it feel like those kinds of resources empowered you to feel or to do?
Brooke: I would say knowing the science behind why to do it made me feel more comfortable in doing it and repeating it. I’m not sure if that’s answering the question…
Ayelet: Totally! I think that really is a big piece of it, because a lot of times, we sing because our babies respond to it, or we sing because it’s what we see our moms do it or our families doing or somebody else doing… or because a commercial told us to do it, you know?
But yeah, I agree – when we understand a little bit about why to do it… and not by reading an entire book about infant development, but little snippets here and there that you can get that are easily digestible, then it does – it allows us to say, ok right! This is actually improving our connection, this is her cognitive development, this is, you know, addressing all of these specific things, and that’s why I should do it!
Brooke: Or like, I guess a few examples would be activities that you had recommended – ones that we had talked about previously – blowing bubbles and what that does for them. So, you know, eye tracking, being able to talk about the bubbles, and maybe hoping that they’re starting to get some head movement – encouraging that. You know, the social smile and all of those kinds of things, all within… oh! We can just – that’s one way to do it! You know, I’m not just blowing bubbles at her – here are things that we’re looking at or encouraging with that activity. So that part I really liked.
And in the book, you do go through, “here are things to try, but here’s what to look for when you’re doing them” or “here’s what to focus on when you’re doing them.”
Ayelet: So, tell me a little bit more. Let’s go back, because you mentioned the kinds of communities that you have been part of. What was appealing to you about the Learn With Less® “Parent & Me” classes and having something like an online community – because, you also mentioned that you’ve been part of Facebook groups and different kinds of online communities before. What was different for you about what these classes were going to be all about?
Brooke: So, the communities that I was part of were very focused on certain topics. The only one that got a little broader was the Wonder Weeks – you could pick the month that your baby was born, and that was a great way to see how different every baby is at a certain time! I just felt like it was just all over the board. And again, these groups are so huge, you’re never really going to connect with anybody, you’re really just kind of comparing yourself to their situation. Maybe you’re offering advice here and there, but you’re not building relationships with 20,000 members of a group.
So, the Learn With Less® classes was something that I actually wasn’t out searching for. I was really in it for all of the resources that you had. And when you started the community, I was like, well this is nice! I mean, I’m surrounding myself with moms that have very similar mindsets – they all want to, I mean, if you look at some of the members of the group, they all want to be the best moms that they can and have really creative ways of engaging with their babies, and it all is about their development and, you know, those interactions – playing with the baby, whereas, some of those other groups are just… all over the board. And, you may not agree with a lot of what they’re saying. I just… I really felt like, as the community grew, I was like, wow, I really have a lot in common with these women.
Ayelet: So, some of the connections, it sounds like, are based in the fact that it’s a place with people who really are trying to maximize their time with their little ones. So, what are some of the kinds of things that you get out of being a member, both specifically and in general?
Brooke: In general, I would say, it opens my eyes to new activities. So, I get a little mundane in the same kind of tasks. Other moms’ ideas on how to spice things up or ways to… like, the other day, somebody put in there, “here’s a way to play with my child,” and did like a paper towel holder, and you know, ways to put objects through the hole on that… and I was like, oh gosh! That’s a really great idea – why didn’t I think of that? And, you know, that was something that I could just go, grab and do, right then!
And I didn’t have to go to the store, I didn’t have to pay anything, you know, to have a fun little experience with her! So, I would say, in general, it’s just more about insight to how others are playing with their little ones. And then, I would say on a personal basis, I would say I’ve needed some gentle support, I guess, in regards to having my husband gone half the time, and wanting to pull my hair out, and just looking for, I guess, reassurance, that we’re all doing a really good job and the best we can do. Kind of like a, “you go, mom” kind of thing! So, I feel like I get both more resources from the moms in addition to support. And like I said, you know, I just feel like I have a lot in common with these moms.
Ayelet: It’s neat, too, because we are all very, very different, and we are all over the world, literally. And the thing that we have in common is a desire to support our little ones, and to support each other. That’s, I think, the other piece of it, that it’s a place that nurtures both our little ones and then also ourselves and each other!
Brooke: Mm hmm. Yeah, and if you get on those big groups, I mean, it can get really negative really fast. A lot of mom shaming. And there has yet to be one comment that has been even remotely, like, even interpreted wrong. You know, that it would be, in my opinion, on the group, everybody is there in a very positive way. Even if they’re struggling with something! It’s just… there’s no negativity, where, when you get into some of those groups where people don’t know each other, and there’s no consequence for being rude, I feel like, that’s really refreshing.
And I’ve actually closed down all those other groups because they actually were too negative, and if I have a question, I’ll just go to Learn With Less®! And sometimes, you know, and we’ve talked about this in the past, too, that sometimes it is about feeding, or sleep or, while that’s not what we’re centered around, really, in the Learn With Less® classes, I like that there’s an opportunity that if I’m really struggling, that it’s a question that I can ask and get feedback.
Ayelet: So, why do you think it is that… what is it that makes the Learn With Less® Curriculum classes different in that way, in your opinion?
Brooke: Gosh, I don’t know! I think it’s just… and I’m kind of lacking for the words of… we’re all there based on, not just empowering each other, but our children… to really be the best that they can be. Not that there’s not other places out there that do that, but just that we’re all there doing the same things, and have positive ways to maximize those activities, or ways to spice up the routines, and, I don’t know why we are all so great! Ha!
Ayelet: I think we’ve done a lot of talking about how to create a community that will do that, and one of the things that we’ve focused on is trying to ensure that, because you mentioned, you know, there hasn’t been a lot of negativity, and I think it has a lot to do with the fact that we don’t dispense parenting advice at each other.
We share our experiences, it’s a place to share personal stories, what we’re experiencing, what we’re going through, ask questions about what other people have experienced and whether it’s similar or different, so it’s a place that we can share instead of judge. And that’s really the premise of it. Because we all recognize that we’re all learning here.
Brooke: Yes. And moms are the worst to each other. I mean, really, the judgment comes from the other mom in the grocery store. And I feel like we just kind of put that on the back burner and we’re all there to really improve what we’re doing as mothers and parents, and make the most out of it for our kids. So, yeah. And as it’s grown, I think that it’s been fun to invite like-minded women and men, and grandparents, and everybody in – caregivers of all kinds.
And none of us are… and maybe I’m generalizing, but I don’t feel like it’s a “Pinterest mom” kind of group. And, funny, with Pinterest, because I based my whole wedding on what I saw on Pinterest! And I was really hard on myself, I mean, you know, I really wanted a “if they can do it, I can do it” kind of a thing. And it wasn’t until after my wedding that somebody told me, “you realize that those are, like, staged weddings.” That those are not all real and that, you know, event companies come in with photographers and models… and I was just like, my gosh!
You know, if I would have known that, you know, I would have given myself a break. And now, going into it as a mom, you know, one of the first places that I went to look for these “activities” – developmental activities – was Pinterest! And, I went in with the mindset of “these moms aren’t real!” Ha!
Ayelet: Hahaha – they have a lot of help! Let’s just say that!
Brooke: And, you know, just kind of cut myself some slack on… that it’s not a Pinterest kind of world that we’re living, and while it might be great to jump in and do some, you know, creative activities here and there, you know, when we do our Learn With Less® community groups, we’re sitting there with… maybe not having showered for multiple days, breastfeeding, changing diapers, you know, all of these things are happening when we’re video chatting with each other, and that is real life! And so, I really love that, you know, we’re not comparing ourselves to something that’s not unattainable and so out there.
Ayelet: Yeah! So… what is the difference, now. What have all of the Learn With Less resources – the book, the community, the podcast… what have all these kinds of things provided for you? And by that, I kind of mean, you know, what’s changed for you now that those things are in your life, and comparing back the before to the after?
Brooke: Well, we can take an example from this morning while we were doing breakfast. Before I learned a lot of different ways from the group how to do “parallel talk,” where you’re talking about what they’re doing while they’re doing it, or you know, I got really caught up in, like, “gosh, I’m so sick of talking all day long.” Like, I don’t have anything else to talk about!
But, as we listened to, you know, different guests that you have on the show, and different ways to incorporate some of that parallel talk or reasoning, or any of those communication tools with the baby. And, again, my baby’s only 13-months old, so she’s saying some words, she points a lot, she has a very strong personality already, she knows what she wants. So, it’s getting fun, because now I’m able to communicate with her a little bit more!
So, when I’m talking, I’m not just talking, talking, talking, talking, I’m actually interacting with her, mimicking her sounds (which I wouldn’t have known to do without some of these resources)! But, as we were eating this morning, you know, she grabbed the jar of apple and pumpkin, and she stuck her hand in it, and she smeared it all over her head and she, you know, she was just kind of going to town, and, knowing that she is experiencing this food through all of her senses – and not just trying to make a mess! Which, if I hadn’t learned everything that I have learned about her senses, and sensory play, I probably would have grabbed the jar and started cleaning it up!
And, instead, you know, I just talked to her about… “oh, your hand is inside!” So we were able to talk about in and out, and, oh it’s slimy! Oh gosh, look at – so messy! And can you smell the pumpkin? And look at the orange on the white table! And, you know, so I was able to pull in all of her senses, for something that, I think without a lot of the knowledge of how she’s learning through that activity, would have just grabbed it and not had the mess!
So, everything I learned from your experts and book and podcasts, it allows me to be a more open-minded mom and really let her get dirty – and understand why it’s ok to… well, maybe not splash in Otis’ water bowl (the dog), but you know! Allow her to get a little dirty, and what she’s learning while she’s doing that, and that she’s not maliciously trying to just make a mess.
Ayelet: There’s no ill intent. It’s simply her trying to experience and learn about the world.
Brooke: Yup! Routines was also a big mundane kind of thing that I was able to get a lot of ideas on how to spice that up. You know, with imitation of, either me doing something for her like doing the diaper and her, oh here – why don’t you close the diaper! Singing songs, bath time – again, singing songs and talking about the different animals that we’re playing with in the tub and bubbles.
And just, everything we do now, I can talk about with her, which, before, it was just like, “here it is.” I just didn’t really understand or know how to share that experience! And every routine and everything that we do is an experience to them.
Ayelet: And it’s so funny because it sounds… when we say that out loud it sounds, like, so obvious, once we put it together. But, how was it that you were able to learn through the resources from Learn With Less and not from a book, for instance.
Brooke: Well, some of it was written. I mean, the stuff you’ve put in your book was based on activities. But with the different experts that you’ve had on – the eating one.
Ayelet: The episode with Andrea Boertiger.
Brooke: On food – and we were having a really hard time with eating. Just understanding, you know, how they’re experiencing the food, and that it’s not black and white like it might be for some people… me… because I’m not really a foodie, so I don’t get excited about it – but it’s not black and white that “we eat to survive.” She’s really hitting everything – all of her senses when she’s chewing on a celery stick or whatever.
I just feel like I’m getting different perspectives, that I guess I could possibly read in a book, but it’s just… it’s different when you’re working through real-life examples! Like, a lot of the people you’ve had on the show have done this with their own child, and given us very specific examples of how they’ve put it into action, practicing what they preach!
So, a book may tell me “here’s why to do it,” but it’s not giving me real-life examples on… they’re going through what they’re recommending and then putting it into real-life examples – and books don’t typically do that! They’ll tell you what to do, and then you have to learn how to apply it in the real world. And sometimes that can be really difficult.
Ayelet: So, it sounds like, number one, seeing the examples, maybe through video or in person, hearing somebody actually talk through something and the process of how it’s done, like we do often times on the podcast, and then, within the book, we’ve got some basic background about development and then what to actually look for, and then further listening, reading, or watching on the website, right? So it – it’s funny! Because, I think, without realizing it yourself, you’re pointing out the fact that Learn With Less actually capitalizes on what we talk about as really beneficial for infant and toddler learning – which is multisensory experiences – but we forget that adults need those, too!
We learn best through that, too, right? We need to see something done before we can, sometimes, imitate it ourselves, or do it or feel comfortable. We need to see something or hear about something, multiple times, in lots of different ways, and often, from lots of different people! And hearing even the same information said even through 5 different lenses, whether it’s watching that happen or hearing it from, you know, this occupational therapist or that speech therapist, or this physical therapist, or that parent who’s had this specific experience… having all of those pieces together sounds like it’s very helpful for you. Because that’s how we learn!
Brooke: Yes! And the follow-through – because with the Learn With Less® “Parent & Me” classes, you know, then we get to talk about how we applied that with examples with each other. And so it’s a continual thing. It’s not like it’s a one-and-done, ok here’s an example, ok see you later – you know, we’re able to say, “ah, I was able to apply xyz to this situation today,” and so not only am I learning another situation or example of how to apply that – so it’s like continuing the education of those examples.
Ayelet: Yeah! Exactly – it’s continuing ed for parents! Hahahaha! And I think something special that can happen, too, and that does happen regularly, is that you know, someone will say something like that they experienced this, or they’ll ask a question about “how does this work in your house, what are you doing to make this… you know, easier or leverage that?” and then you’ll hear from that person maybe a couple of months later about how it’s going now, and what they tried, and what worked or didn’t work. And that follow through is just phenomenal! It’s hard to find that! So, I love hearing those stories, too.
Brooke: Mm-hmm. A good example would be the Montessori stuff. You know, some of the moms put some of that stuff into action right away.
Ayelet: Yeah, we had Jeanne-Marie Paynel, who’s the creator of Voila Montessori, come to speak about how to bring Montessori-type concepts into the home with our infants and toddlers, and then… let’s hear a little bit about that, Brooke.
Brooke: Well, I haven’t personally put anything into action yet, but that was something that a lot of moms had feedback on – “oh I’m going to try this or try that” and that follow-up that you’re talking about, like, “oh it’s working really well,” and changes that they’ve been able to make in their toy selection, toy rotation, you know, that just – throughout their homes! And yeah, I felt like that was a really good one that a lot of people put into action right away.
Ayelet: Yeah – and to just hear about things that maybe you wouldn’t even think to try in your own home is very cool. Hearing so many different perspectives, I think, does – like you were saying earlier – give us a deeper understanding about, sometimes, the kinds of ways that we’re deciding to live our lives, and about the decisions that we’re making for our own family! So without – when you take away that judgment piece, and you’re just learning, and synthesizing and connecting with other people, you’re just learning! You’re just being exposed, which is true education!
Brooke: Right. There hasn’t really been anything that I’ve been, like, oh no, I definitely wouldn’t try that. I mean, all of it is very practical ways to help develop your little human! And ideas! You know, it’s not like, “here’s how to do it, and do it this way or if you do it that way it won’t work.” It’s just all things to take into consideration as you go throughout your day, and I really like that.
Ayelet: Awesome. Well, thank you, Brooke. I want to ask you one last question before we go, and that is: what would you recommend… if you could talk to your pre-mom self, what’s one thing that you might say to yourself, knowing what you know now, and having access to the kinds of things that you have now. What would you say to you, either when you were still expecting or in that first month or two of having your little one.
Brooke: Well, I guess it’s easy to say now that I feel more comfortable now in my role as a mom, but just that I’ll feel comfortable being a mom! That that day will come!
Ayelet: The “it gets better” campaign!
Brooke: Yeah! Just trusting that you know, there is such a thing as motherly instincts, and I was afraid that they wouldn’t kick in, and they have. I really feel like I know what’s best for my baby, and I also feel like everything that I’m doing to learn more about how to help her grow and… I’ve done everything that I can do and, just kind of giving myself a little bit of a break and, you know, just have a little bit more trust in yourself, and go with the flow. And accept help when people offer it to you.
Ayelet: Nice. And I suppose, find things that speak to you.
Brooke: Yes.
Ayelet: Awesome. Thank you, Brooke, thanks for your time, and thanks for being here today with us.
Brooke: Thank you, and for everything that you do.
