What exactly is a postpartum doula?
On this episode of the Learn With Less podcast, Ayelet sits down with Kate Turza, a mother of three, a CAPPA certified postpartum doula, and co-host of the Mom Deconstructed podcast. Kate is passionate about normalizing the postpartum period, creating community to support new families, and pulling back the curtain of what “real” motherhood looks like.
We spoke about Kate’s professional background, as well as her personal journey into becoming a doula. We discussed the roles of both the birth doula and postpartum doula (and why families might benefit from each), and we discussed various options for families who are more marginalized or who have fewer resources to pay for needed services like these.
Most importantly, we covered Kate’s top tips and resources for families who are hoping to maximize the ways they can conserve energy, take care of themselves and their babies, and try to enjoy those early days and weeks after the arrival of a new baby.
Quick access to links in this episode:
Mom Deconstructed podcast
Kate’s free postpartum support workbook
Mothering the New Mother, by Sally Placksin (affiliate link)
Postpartum Support International
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Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest / YouTube
Kate: Website / Facebook / Instagram
Text transcript of this episode
Ayelet: Welcome to episode 68 of the Learn With Less podcast. Today I am speaking with Kate Turza, a mom of three beautiful, energetic and loving kiddos, a CAPPA certified postpartum Doula, a board member of the East End Birth Network, Inc., and host of the Mom Deconstructed podcast.
Kate says that after experiencing a trying postpartum period, after her third child was born, she began her training to become a postpartum doula, and since then, she has been providing support for new families as they transitioned into early parenthood. She is passionate about normalizing the postpartum period and creating community to support new families, pulling back the curtain of what real motherhood looks like. Kate, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to Learn With Less.
Kate: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Ayelet: So I have asked you to come onto the show today to speak to us about postpartum doulas, but first I know I’ve introduced you, but tell us a little bit more about you and about how you got into the work that you are doing.
Kate: Right. So as I had mentioned, I’m a mom with three who are now almost eight, which is crazy to me to think about. And then I’ve got a six-year old, and then I’ve got an almost four-year old, and two boys followed by a girl. We live here on long island. We’re on the Eastern end of Long Island, which is pretty rural despite what people think. I mean we live out in the Hamptons so people don’t think of it as rural, but it actually really is very rural out here.
There’s not a lot of support for new families. Most families are two income households like mine. I mean I have another another day job that I do in addition to my side hustle – my benefit-paying job, and when I had my third… I suffer from anxiety had it since as long as I can remember, I was diagnosed in college and had been kind of battling it and learning how to manage it through my twenties.
And then when I had my first, I had a really hard time with the postpartum period, but I attributed it more at the time to being a first-time mom and not having any study that I could ask for help. I mean there were no support groups I could go to. There was, there was not, I mean it was, it was. There’s nothing. And this was almost eight years ago. Things have changed since then.
And then I had my second quickly after and then I had my third pretty quickly after that, and after my third I had some medical complications that cut my breastfeeding relationship with her shorter than I had wanted. And that kind of sent me into a tailspin and I was having a really hard time processing it. And for whatever reason it was very fixated on… I had a goal in mind of what I wanted to do and I wasn’t able to reach that goal. And I had – the goal was more than I had done my previous two and I was determined.
She was, she always was our last or my third no matter what, boy or, you know, we had, we wanted three kids, she was going to be my last and so when I couldn’t meet the goal, it was really hard for me and I didn’t know where to turn. And my good friend, my best friend, she lives in Denver, which is much more urban than where I live and she had her first child right at the same time.
I was having my third and she was saying how she has all these supports. She has, you know, she goes to lactation support weekly meetings and she’s, she knows of a therapist she could like, she had all these resources and I, I searched the internet and couldn’t find one within a 20-mile radius of where I live.
So I just got to thinking and talking and I wanted to change that and then I found out what a postpartum doula was and I went through my training for that, and that kind of started the journey of an evolution and hopefully we’re kind of changing the way things are out here.
Ayelet: That’s great. Did you, did you find out what a postpartum doula was through a google search?
Kate: Well, my friend said, the same friend from Denver said, Hey, I’ve heard of this postpartum… my therapist has this postpartum doula that she recommends. And I was like, what is that? And so I googled it and then I figured out what it was and I was like, oh, that’s what I need to start, like, start this whole thing rolling.
Ayelet: Wow, that’s so great. So okay. I would love for you to tell us a little bit about what it means to be a doula because as you said, you didn’t even know what it was. Of course, people who’ve never, who never have had kids don’t know the term, aren’t necessarily familiar with the term. And of course there are a few different kinds of doulas, right.
So the role of a birth doula seems to be becoming more understood, but I do think the role of postpartum doula is still misunderstood by many. So can you give us, because we have a large variety of listeners, some are expecting their first child, some have multiple young children, you know, tell us a little bit about what each of those types of doulas is and really what the differences are. And then can you tell us a little bit about why new mothers and new families might benefit from a postpartum doula?
Kate: Sure. Lots of questions, so if I forget to answer any of them, remind me to get back on track. So, so first let’s talk about what a doula is. A doula is actually, it’s a Greek word and it means female servant that’s like its origin, but it encompasses a broad variety of women supporting women, generally, supporting families.
One is a birth support or labor support doula and they tend to cater to the prenatal. They might do a couple meetings during the prenatal period, but they’re there for the actual labor. So from the time labor starts until the time labor finishes and possibly a couple of hours after and maybe a visit or two after the labor is concluded and the baby’s earth side, they are your support and they provide physical, emotional, spiritual support to the laboring mom and also education to the family unit.
Ayelet: I mean I think because I had a birth Doula for my first birth, I was supposed to have one for my second birth but he came really quickly, it was a precipitous labor…. But the first time, I think it was, having a birth doula was also very, uh, advantageous for my husband. And of course my doula was there for me as well. But just to give the birth partner a little bit of respite and education, like you said, I think just to chime in a little bit.
Kate: Right. And that’s the role of a birth support doula. It’s not, they’re not medical professionals, they’re not delivering the babies. They’re there to support the family unit and, or the mom and whoever supportive partner they have.
And then you have a postpartum doula. Some birth support doulas are also postpartum doulas, but a postpartum doula comes into the relationship after the baby is born and it can last – the relationship can last with the postpartum doula for as long as the between the postpartum doula and the family want.
Some relationships I’ve had have been over six weeks with a visit or two or checking in once or twice a week for six or more weeks. Sometimes it’s just one or two visits in the first week trying to, you know, get their feet on the ground, but a postpartum doula is there to increase the parent confidence and the mother’s confidence so that we work ourselves out of the job. It’s just to ease that transition.
You’re providing resources and education when appropriate, you’re providing practical support, so helping out around the house so that the mother can rest because we all know, no matter how your baby comes into the world, it is emotionally and physically draining and you need to recover (in addition to take care of this baby). So we’re there to support that.
Obviously there’s physical support, so some women who do have a c-section were doing the lifting. We’re doing that kind of stuff, helping her get the baby to nurse or however you’re feeding, you know, just kind of help ease that transition, and there’s also the spiritual and emotional support of this huge upheaval and your hormones are the highest right after you give birth and then they plummet within that first week to the lowest they’ve been since before you’ve gotten pregnant, which is, it’s a huge transition and we’re there to talk, talk through it, and there’s a lot of things that go along with having a baby that isn’t just caring for a baby and that’s, that’s where a postpartum doula comes in. I would say most of my job is listening and kind of gentle guidance, but mostly just listening.
Ayelet: It’s such an such an incredible role that you play, and again, I want to reiterate, this is not a medical professional, but you are, yeah. You’re this supportive, helpful person. Now I imagine that some postpartum doulas are also breastfeeding counselors or have additional sort of certifications or specialties that they can help.
Kate: Oh yeah. There’s a ton of different training that you can have in addition to the general postpartum doula training. I have continuing education credits in postpartum mood disorders, so I have a little more education than the generic postpartum doula in terms of that. But there are postpartum doulas that our CLCs, IBCLCs, therapists. I mean, a postpartum doula is just an additional training.
Ayelet: So I mean, here’s the thing. These are services that cost money obviously. I mean, you said, like, I love how you put that. You work yourself out of a job, which is so fantastic, right? Like the whole purpose of a postpartum doula is to create a sense in a family that a postpartum doula is not needed, which is great, but we know that there are many mothers with fewer resources or who are more marginalized, especially in the United States, and those moms and families are often those who could benefit the most. Tell was a little bit about, you know, what is the conversation like within the birth and postpartum community? What is sort of being done about this disconnect?
Kate: There’s a lot of things things being done. I’m part of a nonprofit out here and so we focus a lot of our efforts out here, but I’m also a member of the Long Island Doula Association, which is a much bigger nonprofit, but there are a lot of doula and birth community organizations that are trying to cater to this lower income, less able to pay for services and there’s, there’s lots of different ways you can look into getting the support you need.
One is, first I would contact your whoever your birth professional is, and see what they have to say because they may be able to tell you about a program. I know out here we have a program for lower income. You apply and then you can get a postpartum or birth doula depending on if you get accepted. In New York state, they’re looking to have Medicaid cover doula services. So that’s a bigger, you know, that’s a big legislative issue, but honestly you need to talk to your professional. They’ll be able to point you in the right direction and if they don’t give you an answer that you think is correct or don’t give you enough information, then you need to find another professional who can give you that information.
So whether that be, even if it’s not the person who’s going to be delivering your baby, call the local midwife, call another doula because most doulas want to help, even if we can’t actually be there to support you physically, we want to be able to get you the help you need. So we probably know maybe a doula who’s in training has got to reduced rate going on. Yeah, so you just have to reach out and kind of see what’s available in your hospital or wherever you’re birthing, your birth center probably has programs that they know about and then you can apply through those things.
Ayelet: That’s great, thank you. So let’s just take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsors and then we are going to hear a few tips and resources from Kate about easing into that transitional period of new parenthood, as well as a few of our favorite resources for families interested in learning a little bit more about this.
Ayelet: Okay, Kate. Whether or not families decide that a postpartum doula is for them, can you give our listeners a few tips for maximizing the ways that they can, say, conserve energy, take care of themselves and their babies and really just try to find more joy in those early days and weeks after the arrival of a new baby because I know you mentioned so much…. there’s so much more than just caring for a new baby. That physical care. There’s so much more that happens within a new mom, a new parent’s life that comes with that transition.
Kate: So there are a bunch of things that I recommend I actually have a resource on my website you can get and go through all of them, but I will highlight the ones that I think are most important. I just want to say also, something to highlight why it’s so important, having support during the postpartum.
Our culture 100 years ago was living in small knit communities and we had the social networks already built in and we were around, we were around other women that were having babies and we weren’t so isolated, and now 100 years later, our primary mode of communication is via the internet and not necessarily physical interaction with people and our, you know, transition into a family after you have a newborn.
It’s not there because we’re not, we’re not secondhand experiencing it. Our neighbor’s not going through it and we’re not involved in there. So that why this profession has kind of started to make an uprising in the last, I would say probably 10 years, I don’t think. I think the first training was probably 25 years ago, so it’s a fairly new outcropping of professionals, but I think that that just highlights why it’s so important. I’m, we don’t have the networks set up already.
Ayelet: Which is why so much like – this is why our community – our online community exists for instance, right? Because there are so wonderful when like your friend in Denver, has amazing community-based networks and organizations and support programs, but number one, not all communities have that and number two, they’re not always easily accessible or affordable or whatever, you know, are the things that are limiting ourselves from…
Kate: I mean, let’s be real. You have a baby, the last thing you want to do is to get some semblance of dressed and you know, get somewhere at a certain time… Like it just doesn’t happen.
Ayelet: Right? Yeah. It’s crazy.
Kate: Anyway, so that’s kind of. That was an aside, but so things that you can, you and your partner, whoever that may be, whether it’s a grandparent, whoever is going to be your support person during this initial period, it might your parent not a partner, because your partner goes back to work right away and won’t be there. So whoever is going to be your support person that you think you’re going to rely on the most, this is the conversations you need to have with them.
So one thing is, you need to be real about what you think your postpartum period is going to look like. So this is where you put your expectations: do you want visitors, do not want visitors. Who do you want to visit? Who do you not want to visit? Who are you comfortable with having do chores around the house? Who are you comfortable with holding the baby, who you comfortable with being just being in your home when you’re, you know, starting to lactate and your body’s doing who knows what.
So that’s, that’s something that needs to be discussed. If you have a history of mental health issues, so even if you have them under control, but if you, you know, 10 years ago you battled depression, that’s something you need to talk about with your partner so that they know that they’re aware that you’re at a higher risk for developing postpartum mood disorders.
Also, explaining that the postpartum blues happens to 80 percent of moms and the, I don’t think that’s talked about enough either, which can be up to two weeks of depression, anxiety, just feeling crying all the time. And that can be really hard for a partner if they’ve never experienced it, don’t know what it is to experience it.
So just kind of trying to meet up with that can be kind of difficult when they don’t know what to expect that this might be a normal period in the postpartum period. Something else that you need to go through with this particular partner is all the professionals that you’re going to be relying on, even if you’re not hiring them. But knowing who a postpartum doula is that you could call if you were or who a lactation consultant is, where the nearest lactation support group, where the nearest new moms support group, all that kind of stuff. You both need to know where they are.
That’s another huge thing and that’s, I mean, we’re list making at this point if you can, if it’s written down you’ll remember it, but having the conversation is still better than nothing. So another thing that I like to talk to my clients about is you need to set up boundaries. There are people that are going to be wanting to be part of your postpartum period that you may not want to have part of your postpartum period, and there are people that your partner may not want to be a part of your postpartum period and you kind of need to navigate that and try and do that ahead of time so that it’s not all of a sudden you’re hearing that his great aunt is coming by in an hour and you haven’t showered in three days. Just being real and opening up the communication. That’s another thing is it’s hard for new moms to really express how they’re feeling, to communicate well.
It’s hard for anybody to communicate well, but really just maybe having a code word that like, I can’t handle that right now, or just saying I can’t right now, and not being okay. You need to put off all major decisions. So the idea of two months after having a baby of maybe like looking for a new house, probably not a good decision. Getting a dog, not a good decision, getting a hamster, probably not a good decision. So if you can put off any major decisions for six months after the baby comes, because when, during the prenatal when you don’t have that baby, it’s fun to think about like, oh, we could do this, I’ll be home on maternity leave, I’ll have time to do this.
Ayelet: We can’t imagine what it will be like and we can’t anticipate what it will be like because what happened for our best friend, may be a very different experience for us internally, for the kind of baby that we have. I mean it’s just, it’s so variable and you cannot anticipate, and I want to say, too, I mean it’s, I think for many of our listeners hearing you say, you know, oh, don’t make any decisions.
Obviously you’d have to make some decisions and some of them are things that we can start to think about before we have the baby and some are things that we just won’t be able to anticipate. And that’s, I think taking away any additional things that are just not necessary. I think Kate, that’s so important and I totally agree. Obviously, many of them, I things like how and when to go back to work, how to orchestrate things like childcare and all of those things which are, you know, a whole other level of stress and often necessary and not everyone has to deal with that and some do and it’s just, it’s a hard thing to navigate. And so I think what you’re saying Kate, about minimizing those kinds of extra stress points is so important.
Kate: Yeah, just trying to make your life as easy as you can. Another thing is trying to outsource. This doesn’t have to be paid, but, you know, you, you say outsource when people think I’m, I’m not going to, you know, hire a house cleaner, but if you can do it, if you have a friend that’s willing to come every other week and help out around the house, do it.
Whatever you can to take things off your plate that you normally would do and you can always just add them in as you feel ready. Another thing is to reframe visitors into helpers. So taking a mind shift that people coming to see you are not visiting, they’re there to help. So having chores!
Ayelet: I recently saw an article about how instead of having baby showers, we should have post-baby showers for people who are like, instead of bringing another onesie or another muslin cloth, bring the ability to take a shower, the ability to whatever it is, feed a mom without her having to get up.
Kate: You know people have… it’s hard now because everybody’s so busy and doing things, but most moms that have recently gone through it, I would say recently in the past 10 years, remember vividly what it was like and will make – carve out time if you ask to help you.
But that’s another hard thing, asking, you have to learn how to ask for help and not view it as a negative and not view it as a character flaw that you’re asking for help. We have seasons in our lives where we’re giving and we’re taking, and this is the season. It’s fine to take.
Ayelet: Yeah. Because you’re giving so much of yourself to this tiny, brand new human being!
Kate: Right, so you need to take some to re-nourish yourself.
Ayelet: Well said. Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, what are some of your favorite resources that you like sharing with families?
Kate: So the first, as I mentioned, I have on my website a workbook, which is ktpostpartumdoula.com/workbook/ and it goes through a lot of what I’ve talked about. You can work through it with your partner, even if you just work through yourself. There’s a place that lists all the professionals you should know in your area, so that’s something you can just go, you enter your email address and then you can download it.
Ayelet: Perfect. And we’ll connect to that in the show notes as well.
Kate: Another, it’s a book, it’s a little bit on the long side, but it is chockfull of information. It’s called Mothering The New Mother by Sally Placksin. It’s an amazing resource, and I’m pretty sure she has a website that has more of a condensed version, but that is another. That’s like the book.
And if you’re looking for a postpartum doula in your area, I first I would suggest getting a certified postpartum doula and there’s a bunch of different certifications, I don’t know them all, but the certification gives you a little more, you know, they have to be CPR certified, all that kind of stuff.
So the two bigger organizations are DONA, so you can go on their website and find a postpartum doula and birth support Doula and CAPPA, which is what I’m trying to through which is another larger organization. And lastly, I would like to, if you’re suffering or think you’re suffering from any postpartum mood disorder or prenatal mood disorder, Postpartum Support International is an amazing, amazing resource. They will help you find therapists. They’ve got a warm line, and that’s postpartum.net. And that’s a great website.
Ayelet: Yes. Awesome. Thank you so much, Kate. And thanks to all of the participants of the Learn With Less® Curriculum who are listening live. We are going to continue the discussion and open up for Q and A session in just a minute for you guys, and for everyone listening from home or on the go, thank you so much for joining us and we’ll see you next time.
