On this episode of the Learn With Less podcast, we were joined by Sonnet Simmons, Veronica Morales Frieling, and Bryana Kappa. Sonnet and Veronica are hosts of the “Not Your Mother’s Podcast.” and co-creators of the parenting online course “Raising Children You Like” with Bryana Kappa.
We chatted about:
- Each of our guests’ backgrounds and how they came into the work they’re all doing today
- Personal experiences in the transition from parenting an infant into toddlerhood
- What’s happening in the brain when a young child is having a tantrum
- Older methods of discipline and diffusing a tantrum why they don’t work, and what you can do instead
- Specific changes these parents have made as a result of understanding their toddlers better
- Recommended resources for families looking for additional support
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Not Your Mother’s Podcast (hosted by Sonnet and Veronica)
The system of courses over at Raising Children You Like, including the Toddler Tantrum Toolkit
Beyond Behaviors, by Mona Delahooke
No Bad Kids: Toddler Discipline Without Shame, by Janet Lansbury
Parenting From The Inside Out, by Dan Siegel
The Conscious Parent, by Dr. Shefali Tsabary
Siblings Without Rivalry, by Adele Faber
How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish
How to Talk so Little Kids Will Listen, by Joanna Faber and Julie King
South Bay Mommy & Me, based in Redondo Beach, California
Connect With Us:
Veronica, Sonnet, and Bryana’s resources at Raising Children You Like: Website / Instagram
Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest
Text Transcript of This Episode:
Ayelet: So, today I am speaking with Sonnet Simmons, Veronica Frieling, and Bryana Kappa. Sonnet and Veronica are hosts of the Not Your Mother’s Podcast and co-creators of the parenting online course, Raising Children You Like, with Bryana Kappa.
So, Sonnet and Veronica are two long-time friends who became new moms at the same time, and who kept asking the question: “why doesn’t anyone tell you this about motherhood?” And set out on a journey to find answers to the unsaid and unspoken’s of motherhood by interviewing experts in areas like sex after baby, female body postpartum marriage. That’s two separate things. Postpartum, marriage…
Sonnet: [Laughter] postpartum marriage is definitely something!
Ayelet: Yes! Childhood development, and so much more. Sonnet is also a singer and songwriter. And Veronica is a digital marketing queen. And Bryana is a licensed marriage and family therapist with a private practice in Redondo beach, California. She’s endorsed as an infant family, early childhood mental health specialist. And she works exclusively with new moms and young children, birth to five. She owns, it operates South Bay Mommy and Me, and is the mother to Mateo, someone we can hear in the background because we are all parents. We’re all moms and welcome to motherhood, right?
Veronica: Yep. Yeah. I tried to put her down, but she wanted to go down.
Ayelet: Hashtag, motherhood, right? This is a podcast for and from parents. So it’s fine. So Sonnet, Veronica and Bryana. This is I think the first time we’ve ever actually braved three guests on the Learn With Less podcast, and I can’t think of a better triple threat panel. So I want to thank you so much for coming onto the Learn With Less podcast to share your story. Welcome, you guys.
Sonnet: Thank you so much for having us. Thank you.
Ayelet: So I’ve asked you to come onto the show today to speak to us about some tips to create what you guys call a toddler tantrum toolkit. But first I know we did a little bit of a background, but why don’t you give us just sort of a short backstory about you guys and how you came into this crazy thing called parenthood. And whoever wants to go first, just chime in.
Bryana: You guys go.
Sonnet: Okay. Um, so this is Sonnet, and I don’t know. I mean, how I got into parenthood is I think the same as everybody else. One, one, one night, one sexy night, that’s how that happened. But luckily I had Veronica and I have been friends. We have been like single lady friends. We met at a music festival. Like you look through our pictures together and we have really gone through a lot. And so we became moms at the same time, too.
And we would go on these walks and we were just in that mode of transition, where you’re trying to just get back to your old identity and you haven’t figured out yet that there is no getting back. And so you’re just frustrated that nobody talks about this, and you can’t put your finger on it, and you can’t find information about it. And so we decided to find that information ourselves.
And I mean, you also go on your own journey, but through the experts, we have learned so much, and we’re so grateful to be creating this community of moms and experts to get information from and how much we’ve learned as mothers to really allow ourselves to go through that transition. And to understand that we are becoming new people, rebirthing ourselves, as well as, you know, as a child, when we become a mom. And how that looks so different than you could ever imagine it will look. So that’s pretty much it, here we are!
Ayelet: So true. Anybody else
Bryana: For me? This is, this is Bryana. I, my story is a little different because I actually started working with moms and children, long before I became a mother myself. I’ve been working in a clinical capacity for eight years. And I think what really led me to working in infant mental health in particular and toddler mental health, was my own relationship with my mom and my family. And really just trying to understand and make sense of what happened as a child and the way it affected me.
And it really like lit this fire in me of, wow, what can I do to help support moms and children in having healthy, safe, secure relationships, attachments like a real sense of trust so that, you know, these children grow up. I want, I would like children to grow up into adults who believe that they are worthy, who believe they’re adequate, who believes that they can be loved and can love themselves.
These are all things that I, myself, even just as an adult, with all the work I’ve done, still struggle with and still feel uncertain about. And, you know, after learning about attachment and family systems in graduate school, it was just like this light bulb went off of, Oh, wow. Trauma. Isn’t just something like something that’s happened to you, but it’s something that gets passed down from generations. And sometimes you’re the, the holder of multiple generations of trauma. And what does that do to a person’s psyche? And what does that do? How does a person like go out into the world and live like that?
So all of those things just kind of came into one melting pot and I got that’s what really put me into the field of prevention. I was like, well, it doesn’t make sense to try to like work with adults who are already like going and like already having so much baggage. Let me like work with adults in this major transition. Let me work with parents in this major transition into life of becoming a parent where they are in such a powerful, influential place with their child. And how can we start that, right from the very beginning and prevent things right from the very beginning. So I’m very motivated by that. And then I became a mom myself, again, one sexy night.
Ayelet: [Laughter] Just to put it out there, it does not always happen that way, right?
Veronica: Okay. That’s true, that’s true.
Bryana: That’s true. For us, it did, and it was a very intentional, sexy night, guys, legs up, you know, for 30 minutes.
Sonnet: Wearing your heels and earrings. [Laughter]
Bryana: Anyway, so then, I became a parent myself and I started to, with my own child, utilize the things that I’ve been teaching parents for all these years. And it all kind of solidified for me like, wow, this, this stuff actually works.
And now, as you know, through just over the course of the last 18 months, we’ve been, Sonnet and Veronica and I, have been working together to really solidify the message of what really helps support children and families in their relationships in their, you know, engagements in everything. So, okay. I’m done talking. That was a lot.
Sonnet: No, it’s fantastic. And obviously just to add, like we, I met Bryana through South Bay Mommy and Me, I was a student or I still am, you know, I had come in and was just blown away by the whole approach, you know, cause it’s what we desire as moms, to show up for our children that way. And then we were like, come work together!
Veronica: So like before Sonnet went to South Bay Mommy and Me, we were in a Mommy and Me class up here in LA and that, our instructor was the one that introduced her to Bryana and once, and once, I got pregnant (another sexy night) six months after the first toddler was born. And so I, so I, while Sonnet was like, really in toddlerville, I was in like, Oh my God, I’m going to be a mom to a second child, you know, place.
And when I saw, and so Sonnet moved down and we don’t see each other as regularly as we used to. And when I saw her, her parenting and her relationship with Cairo had completely shifted from when I had last seen them. And I was like, whatever you’re learning, I need to learn too, because we were getting into the, the tantrums and that whole thing.
And so that’s when we were like, we need to work with Bryana and really get her message out there because it’s so helpful. And so it just, in the past few months of just working with her, I’ve seen a complete shift in my own patience and all, all that jazz that we’ll get into. So yeah, that’s how we all came to be.
Ayelet: I love it. Okay. So let’s get into it. Sonnet and Veronica, from a parent perspective, I would love to hear a little bit more about what that transition from parenting an infant to parenting a toddler, was like for each of you and Veronica, we can start with you also, because you mentioned also, you’re not only, at that point, you were not only parenting a toddler, but also an infant at the same time. So, yeah, I… It’s hard. Let’s hear about that.
Veronica: Also, what I’ve learned is that each stage that you hope to get out of, the next one that comes isn’t better than the last one, you know, there’s, there’s always problems. So it was really not about the child. It’s about the parent. Yeah. It’s like, I learned that it’s not about them. It’s about you. It’s not about where they’re at, because they’re gonna, they’re gonna run their course. They’re gonna do their thing. They’re going to learn and be messy and make mistakes and do all those things regardless of how you feel about it. So it’s really not about them. It’s about you. And also, that time goes by really fast.
So now seeing Melrose, my four month old, before months, whereas just Cecilia was four months last year, time goes by so quickly. So I’m not so honed in on like fixing them or like, or like fixating on the problems. I’m able to also care less because I just don’t have the bandwidth to be so, like high strung on what’s going on with them, even though I still am high strung. Um, but it’s just really, it’s just about doing the work on myself.
Ayelet: Yeah. Let’s, I mean, we’re going to get into all of that too, but will you give us a couple of things about what, what does that look like for you?
Veronica: Um, uh, so just prioritizing self care. So before, like now I’m going to the gym five to six times a week, whereas before it might be like two or three times a week, and it would be around their nap schedule and feedings and all this stuff. And it’s like, they can just call me if they, if they’re hungry, if they’re tired, I can just leave, but I have to get there and take care of myself. So I would say that’s like the biggest shift.
Also, I’ve been working with Bryana with this, about when Cecilia, my toddler, is having a tantrum. She’s very triggering like her, her and I are, her birthday is like a day after mine. So I think there’s like some cosmic, like relationship thing that is going on between us. So a lot, like most of the things that she does, I’m like, Oh God, okay. Like I can’t react.
So I’m learning how to pause and take a breath, multiple breaths, before I engage has been like a total game changer, because it’s so easy for me to react to her, rather than to like proactively or like, not necessarily prevent, but just create some space between us. But so I don’t like get into her swell of energy. I’m much better at creating the safe space for her to come to me and me be there for her to like, give her a hug or listen or whatever it is that she needs at that time.
Ayelet: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. And then to, to figure out like that, okay. That you’re taking a breath and then try and figure out what it is that she needs. Right. Because she’s going, “BLEH!!!,” right? But if you are able to just sit, sit for a second with, with your brain, your, your like adult brain, which actually does have layers of like impulse control that she doesn’t have…
When you can activate it, right, which is hard, especially when you’re being triggered.But the, that you can find those ways to step back. That’s awesome. Sonnet, let’s hear about it from, from your perspective, what was that transition like parenting, this brand new, cute little baby who’s coming themselves every day and then there’s a shift, right?
Sonnet: Yeah. No, I was like, hello, I just gave birth to you. So I feel like you should still be listening to me. Like, you know, I should still be in control here! But it’s not the way it goes, you know? And, and I think for me, what has been really helpful is just understanding where they’re at, you know, like developmentally, this is super normal developmentally, this is why they’re doing this. And this is why they need this kind of support.
And the best thing that I, like, I was in a restaurant the other day with an older lady, like my grandma, I was like an older lady who shall remain nameless. With my grandma. And Cairo was making a little bit of noise. And she was like, we do not make noise in the restaurant like this. And I was like, well, you know, she’s a toddler. She’s going to make noise. She’s babbling, she’s doing her thing. Like, she’s upset, she’s whatever.
But it’s such a just difference in the parenting of, I probably was raised like that. You know, it’s like, we are quiet here. And if you’re not able to be quiet, then we’re going to leave. And it’s a very different thing to be like, okay, well, she just needs to sit here and like, take all the sugar out and put it all back and she’s not hurting anybody.
And I can like take a deep breath and be okay with that and let her be, you know, and it’s really a testament to Bryana teaching us, really, this whole story of, of where they are developmentally so that we can help support them where they are and what they need.
And like you said, they don’t have those layers. That’s just not built into them yet. And so we are, we look to them and we’re like, why don’t you understand? I mean, I even hear my husband say it sometimes. Like she should know.. I’m like, but she doesn’t like, she doesn’t know, like, that’s okay. You know, like…
Veronica: You’re like, you’re 40 and you don’t know!
Sonnet: I know, right? They’re not even there yet, you know? So how do we help them support them where they are at, whether that, rather than where we are.
Ayelet: Right, well, and I think, too, it’s important for families and, and grownups in general to hear like, because I think some people could hear what you’re saying. Like, Oh, well, this child in a restaurant was so loud and that mom’s just letting her be so loud. Like, there’s a difference between, like, I mean, there there’s a limit, right? Like, of course I’m not run loose in a restaurant and trip all the waiters and scream and not let other people enjoy their restaurant experience.
But I am gonna let my child maybe like open a sugar packet and empty it into a bowl. Like, that’s fine. That’s fine motor control and all kinds of wonderful developmental tasks. Right. Like that’s okay. And like you said, the babbling and the talking to herself, that like, that’s fine, right So I just wanted to like, be perfectly clear. Cause I think a lot of people are like, well, what is it? Like, where’s the limit? Like there’s a limit.
Sonnet: Yeah! But then I find when she is like super loud and she is feeling like she needs to go trip all the waiters. Like I need to take her outside. Like my job is not to make her sit in her high chair and yell at her till she does, till she’s quiet.
Ayelet: Cuz that’s enjoyable for all the other people, too.
Sonnet: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. But we don’t keep her there to trip the waiters. Right.
Bryana: Right. We’re always looking at our child’s sense of regulation. And our goal is not to control our child because that doesn’t work. That always ends up in power struggles and battles between children and parents. Our goal is to see, how regulated is my child, and if my child is not in a nice green ready to go zone, then how do I get my child back to that?
And so, yeah, sometimes a child is just babbling and happy and playing and they’re good to go. And they’re not, like I love the way Sonnet said it. Like, she’s not hurting anybody, but if we’re yelling and we’re screaming and we’re a hot mess, or we’re even like screeching and throwing our bodies around, yeah. Go take a sensory break, get out of that, loud, you know, environment of the restaurant or whatever it is. Go take a walk, go take in some fresh air.
And it actually is more regulating for us as well. And that’s something that I keep talking about, you know, because so much of parenting these days has become about like, what can we do to our child or what can we do for our child? And I think the best thing that we can do for our child is get ourselves grounded, really feel our bottoms on the chair, our feet on the floor or wherever we are, take some deep breaths and clear our own mind before we hop in, and before we try to engage and support our child.
There is something so powerful about a regulated parent hopping in to support a child who’s not feeling, not feeling their best. Whereas when we are dysregulated, we’re only going to further add to the dysregulation of the child. Or if we’re dysregulated and our child is regulated, we’re only going to further, we’re only going to cause that child to become dysregulated because our children are really, you know, they’re monitoring their own regulation based on us. They’re looking to us to get themselves calm, cool, and collected, not the other way around.
Ayelet: Right. We talked so much about self-regulation in children, and in fact it is all about co-regulation, right?
Bryana: All of it.
Ayelet: That’s exactly what you’re saying, Bryana, it’s not just getting your child to be regulated. It’s being able to provide a model because they are always learning in observation and in imitation of us, right? So how are they going to be calmed and regulated if we’re like, ” YOU HAVE TO BE CALM!”
Bryana: That’s how I grew up, by the way.
Ayelet: Okay. So we’re going to take a break in just a minute, but first Bryana, can you tell us a little bit about what is happening in the brain when a young child is having a tantrum? Cause we spoke a little bit about this regulation piece, but…
Bryana: Absolutely. So children have, you know, for the, for the most part, children, birth to five are doing the majority of their operating out of the emotional part of the brain. That’s a very non-technical term, but we do have, like, different segments of our brain that our children are operating from the thinking part of the brain that allows them to rationalize strategize, organize, plan.
The moment a child becomes triggered, that part of the brain flies off the handle. And if we look to Dan Siegel, he kind of talks about like our thinking brain, our hand brain model. So this is the, this is our thinking brain. It flies off. And now just that really emotional part of the brain is like, “AAAH!,” and it, it activates the fight, flight, or freeze response for our babies. And that’s a very instinctual, emotional, almost reptilian response. And this is why our children can, you know, show physiological signs of distress, right?
If they’re anxious, their eyes are going to get really big and they might start to slobber and their bodies might look kind of scared and they might be pushing away. If they’re feeling really angry, you might see their eyebrows, kind of, you know, tense up and their jaws are going to get tight. We start to see the fists close in.
Either way, the body starts to kind of expand and go away from a nice calm, cool midline, keeping the body, you know, inward, the body starts to splay outward. And this is really the brain communicating to the body: Hey, you got to get ready because you’re threatened and you need to do something about this threat.
And what happens then, the brain releases adrenaline and cortisol, which are some really big stress hormones in the body. And what happens in our brains, as we’re watching that, we’re taking in, visually, the information that we’re seeing from our child, and our brain is also reading all of their cortisol, being, being dripped into their, into their system.
And so our brain starts releasing a ton of cortisol and adrenaline too. So our brain actually ends up mirroring our children’s brain. And now we have an adult, which is like, who becomes like a mini child, and a child, both operating in this limbic system, this, this emotional part of the brain.
And it’s a really unhelpful place for us to be as parents, because what it kind of does is it creates this feedback loop in the child’s brain that says, yeah, this isn’t this an event where I should be threatened. Or this is an event where I should be scared. This is an event that I should be feeling really angry and really upset because my parent is showing me the exact same thing that I’m feeling. So what we, I met, I’ll just stop there. Cause that I feel like answers, answers the question. If you want me to go into more detail, I can. Yes.
Ayelet: I love it. Well, well, we all have more opportunity for that during our Q and a portion after the interview, with our participants, but we’re going to take a break to hear a word from our sponsors. And then we’ll hear a few tips about raising toddlers and diffusing tantrums from Sonnet and Veronica and Bryana. And we’ll hear about their favorite resources to share with families.
Ayelet: Okay. Bryana, let’s start with you. I would love to hear about some of the, what we might call “older” methods of discipline, and diffusing a tantrum. So why… Tell us a couple of these, why they might not be terribly effective and then give us a “what you can do instead,” if that’s alright.
Bryana: Okay. So to just kind of piggyback off what I was saying with the brain, spanking is an older, you know, not as popular, but still being, being utilized way to discipline children. But what happens when we, when we spank, research has shown that children are not able to discriminate spanking from physical abuse. So the brain reads it and experiences it as if it is physical abuse and it automatically activates that fight, flight, or freeze response in the child’s brain. And then what this creates is a lot of complication in that child-parent relationship.
This child kind of becomes a little bit more submissive and compliant in the moment, but out of fear that the parent is like a dual source of love and, and also fear and pain. And so long-term, that is not a very effective way to promote healthy, secure relationships and attachments, which is really, you know, where discipline and, and you know, that like internal sense of like self motivation and self control and impulse control really comes from – it comes from healthy, secure attachments and a sense of trust in the world and people in your world.
So we have that. Another old method, um, are timeouts now timeouts aren’t as like, I don’t know what the word I wanna say is, you know, damaging, if that’s the best word?
Veronica: Traumatic?
Ayelet: It’s not a physical reminder…
Bryana: Reminder, but happens when we do timeouts is it sends a message to a child that you’re, I can’t tolerate your big emotions. You need to go be alone with your big emotions. And so this child then internalizes that as, you know, I don’t, I don’t have anybody who can safely help me navigate these big things that I’m experiencing, that I’m supposed to be experiencing.
And so that’s why, you know, timeouts are, can be kind of, again, they can be effective in the moment, but they’re largely ineffective in the long-term because what I would really, what I think of like a whole person, I think of somebody who is aware of their emotions, is aware of how other people impact them and is also aware of how they impact others. And that is an experience that we get to teach our children about, and we get so many opportunities to teach them about.
So I like to look at temper tantrums and emotional dysregulation as an opportunity to teach my child about what is going on with them inside, how they are impacting others, and how others are impacting them. And each moment is really a learning opportunity. It doesn’t need to be something that I need to punish, because that sends the message that these things are bad.
But instead, it’s something that I get to teach because we’re really learning and growing from them, me as a parent, I’m learning and growing from them. And my child is also learning and growing from each of these experiences.
Ayelet: Okay. So there’s that part. And then we’re going to get to the, what you can do instead part, for sure. But before we do, I want, I want to just say for the purpose of this show, this podcast episode is not to tell you as a parent what to do and what not to do. I think for me, the idea is, when we have, when we see what’s modeled to us from our own parenting, from our friends, from our culture, whatever it is, we feel like that’s what we have.
And that’s what… So the purpose of this is to give you a broader toolbox to use, to understand, to, to see about what some other options are. And then you go back into your family and you decide what’s right for you, right? Because, number one, I also want to say, I love that you, Sonnet and Veronica have sought out professional resources, other people, and as you call “experts.”
For me, as a professional, with a background in early child development and early language development, I actually abhor that word “expert” because I don’t believe there is a parenting expert out there. There is no parenting expert. Who is the parenting expert? That’s you, that’s you, you’re the parent. You are, you are becoming the expert on your own child every single day. And that’s the only way that you’re going to get through this thing.
But, there are professional resources out there, so, call it semantics, call it whatever you want. But I… it’s like one of those triggering terms for me. That I’m like, noooo the chalkboard! Like, No, I’m not an expert. I mess this up all the time! Right? Like Bryana, you’re so mellow and so together right now, but I’m sure you have your moments too, right? Like I love it. And I love that. We all have, like, we can call each other out on this because we are human.
So I think it’s important to recognize this and say like, these are the tools in our tool belt, when we can activate and be regulated ourselves with our tiny humans, then we feel… Like personally, I’m like, I am an Olympic athlete. I just killed that. Like, that was awesome. I did it “right,” like “right”. Like I got that.
I know that I did not activate that limbic part of my kid’s brain and I didn’t quote unquote, damage him in the moment. Like I’m going to do it later today, but I did it that time. And that feels really good. And the more we can retrain our brains – cause that’s what we’re doing, right? Where us, we have to retrain our brain. For them, we are training their brain, like and it’s both really hard from both sides.
I just wanted to say that because I think it’s important to say, because when we, as parents hear, you know, “these are the tools and they’re so pretty, and here’s what it looks like when you do it right?” Like, you’re not going to do it right all the time. And that doesn’t make you a bad parent. It’s okay.
Bryana: Right. It’s such an important conversation. I feel like I was having with sauna and Veronica, when they wanted me to put together tools, I was like, look, guys, the tool is… The tool is take some deep breaths and trust that it’s all going to unfold the way it’s going to unfold, and we have to do our work. It’s our work! Where, we’re raising our children, but really they’re raising us. They’re really teaching us about what we need to work on and what we need to understand better about ourselves and about our lives. So I’m totally with you. It’s, you know,
Ayelet: I love how you said, that, too. It is that, it’s a self discovery piece, right? It’s rough.
Veronica: Absolutely. Yeah. And it’s so easy to feel like you’re doing it wrong. I think that’s such an ease. That’s like a thought that just comes in all the time of your, your head. Like there must be a right way to do this because this one isn’t working.
And to really trust and give yourself permission or give yourself permission to trust that you are the best person who can answer this, you know, with, and, but it, it’s very helpful to have an education and have information and, and know kind of what’s going on for your child, but then you’re the best one to kind of, to be there for your child. Yeah.
Ayelet: You’re the one decide what and how to do that in your own families. Right. I love it.
Bryana: And it needs to be authentic to you the way that you re respond and are in relationship with your children. If it’s fake, if it’s somebody else’s words or someone, else’s way of being, it’s not going to be an authentic way of being in relationship with your children. Like presence is probably the best parenting skill.
One of the best parenting skills that we have, is how do we just be present, be in the moment and, and recognize what’s happening for me and recognize what’s happening for my child, without any judgment, just holding both of those. Like at all times, you know, that, I feel like if, if we did that, that would probably be enough. That’d be all we need to do in raising our kids.
Ayelet: That would change the world, right?
Bryana: Yeah, it would!
Sonnet: For everybody,
Ayelet: Alright, so we have some quote, unquote older methods. These methods have been around a long time, spanking, timeout. What can we do instead?
Bryana: So I like to talk about self-regulation as a tool and our AWE method. So, self-regulation and the AWE method go together. Self-regulation i how do I get myself feeling grounded, get some deep breaths into my body. Am I, is my chest, is my breath in my chest? If it is, send it down into my tummy, what’s going on with my hands? Are my hands starting to clench, if they are relax, them. Notice my shoulders. Are my shoulders up at my ears? If they are, can I bring them down?
I am literally trying to change my physiological cues of stress and get my brain to respond by taking deep breaths and feeling grounded as opposed to reacting to the stress that’s happening in front of me in the moment.
And then, I want to hop into that AWE method. So with my AWE method, it’s, it’s very simple. A W E. A stands for acknowledge. I’m going to acknowledge what I see going on for my child. It’s a pretty simple description. It’s non-judgmental. It’s really simply narrating noticing, in a short way, like one quick little sentence. I can acknowledge the emotion, I can acknowledge if I don’t understand the emotion or if I’m unsure what the need is. I can just notice the behavior that’s in front of me and maybe speak to that quickly.
And then my W is wait. We must wait. Because in those moments that, like I said earlier, the front part of the brain is shut down. It’s all emotional, which means they are processing at a slower speed. And so I need to see: how does my acknowledgement land on my child? Did I get it right? My child is going to be the best indicator, the best litmus test to tell me if I got it right or not.
And if I got it right, they’re gonna, you know, take a pause. They’re going to listen in. If maybe I’m maybe I didn’t quite get the emotion right or I didn’t quite get that need right. Or I’m not really seeing the behavior for what it is. My child’s going to protest a little bit, but when we get it right, they do, they feel felt, they feel heard by us.
Then I can hop into my E, which is my, my engage and my connection. So my whole philosophy is connect before we correct. So I really wanna, like help my child feel safe in that moment. Cause obviously if they’re having a big meltdown, they’re having a big emotional dysregulation, they’re not feeling safe. So my, my main goal is how do I get my baby feeling safe? And then I can set a little limit if I need to.
Right? Like if for the restaurant situation, maybe when we’re in the restaurant, we use our gentle hands or we use, we use our inside voice. When we’re in the restaurant. If you need to use your outside voice, let me know. We’ll take a break and we’ll go outside. Those kinds of gentle but effective limits. And then I want to trust that this process is going to repeat itself. And my child is not going to remember every single thing that I said. But over time and through consistency, we’re going to have this experience.
My child’s body is going to get wired to be able to respond to their own stress in these kinds of ways. And for children who are older, then we can really start problem solving. You know, my young kiddos, my two, you know, two, three-year-old kiddos, I’m helping my children problem solve at that age. For my kiddos four and five. I want to enact that problem solving process because it’s that problem solving process that helps impulse control, and helps our children really, you know, navigate their own emotions and navigate their behaviors in a healthy, safe, and adaptive way. And yeah, that’s the process. It’s pretty simple.
Ayelet: Let’s hear, because you gave a really wonderful example of what that, the engaged piece looks like with say the restaurant example. I would love to have you just give us an example of what the A piece looks like. So for instance, okay. I’m Sonnet’s two year old and I’m shoveling stuff in my mouth, or I’m standing on my chair, whatever I’m doing, what does the parent say?
Bryana: Oh, I would probably say, Oh, it looks like your body really needs to move right now. That would be my A. And then I would wait. So just nonjudgmental, simply noticing what I see the child doing.
Ayelet: And helping the child call attention to what, what it is without, without being like, Oh yeah. Oh yeah, my body.
Bryana: There you go, exactly. Because that’s promoting mindfulness. I’m teaching my child’s brain and my child’s body to be in sync and to recognize, Oh, that is what’s going on. And maybe that two year old will say, “outside.” Maybe, maybe then that two year old will solve their own problem. I want to go outside. If not, either way I’m waiting and I’m taking deep breaths. Especially if I notice this is triggering for me, or I’m aware that other people are watching me and other people are upset with what my child is doing. I’m going to get myself regulated.
And then I hop in with that engage and connect: I can see you really want to move your body right now. We do need to move our bodies outside. I’m going to pick you up and take you outside. Beautiful. Right? Simple, safe, warm, affectionate, but still the boundaries are clear, and they’re, and they’re firm, I’m not advocating for letting your children run the show. I’m not advocating for children being your boss. No, I believe that parents are still the ones in charge, but we don’t need to be controlling to be in charge.
We don’t need to be punitive to be in charge. We can actually collaborate. And I think when we really see our children as our best collaborators, it changes how we, how we want to be in relationship with our kids. It changes how, how they want to respond and be in relationship with us.
Sonnet: Yeah. It’s because you feel like the weight, the weight of the responsibility is balanced. You don’t feel like you’re responsible for how they’re acting and for all of those things. And that’s how mom, where mom guilt comes in, you know, because it’s like, I can’t control my child. My child is insane, you know.
Ayelet: Right, right. Cause they are, we think of them as a reflection of ourselves, right? But we have to acknowledge that they have their own needs, their own physical and emotional needs and feelings. And that’s how they are engaging with the world. I love it. All right. Sonnet and Veronica, I want to hear what are some specific changes that you have each made as a result of really understanding your toddlers better?
Veronica: Oh, what shifts have we made? I mean, just the AWE method that Bryana has that just talks about that has been the biggest shift because, and for me, it’s like, like I had said earlier, it’s the, before even getting to the A, because I was showing up triggered, just taking the breath before I even engaged with her because I just kept feeling like I wasn’t showing up authentically. I was irritated saying like, it looks like your body needs to move. You know, because I was already, I was already frustrated, showing up.
So I had to take a pause before that, uh, to re, to re because my I’m short fused, you know, it’s like these two under 2 is like, don’t do that. It’s a lot. It’s a lot of, it’s a lot of, it’s a lot of baby. So just, yeah, I would say that the AWE method is the, is the biggest shift in, in how I, in our relationship. And it does change so much.
And most of the time when I engage, when I get to the E and I just say, like, it looks it when you can just tell that they’re having a hard time. I’ll just say like, it looks like you need a hug. Do you need a hug? And then she’ll just be like, Ooh. And then like, we’ll hug and then it’ll be over. Yeah. But it’s like, I wouldn’t have gotten there had I, if I didn’t regulate before I engaged authentically.
Ayelet: Yeah. I was just gonna say, I love how you identified because it is so easy to like, try and make that nonjudgmental sentence with so much like, Oh, totally. “Your body’s really loud right now.” Let me try that again.
Veronica: Yeah. That was, I was having a hard time getting there right now.
Ayelet: Yeah. That’s great. How about you for you Sonnet?
Sonnet: I mean, similarly, I feel like just having the acknowledge part, learning that, that it doesn’t have to be this big, like huge acknowledgement paragraph. You know, it’s really like narrating what is happening in that moment for them too. And it’s also extremely helpful for you because it makes you have to take a break and be like, Oh, I see what’s happening here. And have to put words to it.
For me, that’s been incredibly helpful. I don’t even know if Cairo even knows sometimes, you know, like what I’m saying, you know, but for me it’s helpful. Cause I could, I can put words to it and be like, okay, well we’re going to go outside then. Cause I can see you need to move your body. So for me that’s been one of the most helpful parts of this is, is the acknowledgement of it.
Ayelet: Yeah. That’s awesome. Um, all right, well guys, let’s hear about some of your favorite resources you’d like to recommend to families who are looking for additional support in this area. Cause we have acknowledged that it is hard. We have given some tools, but we have knowledge that it is difficult. So what are some resources that families, that you’ve used, that you’ve created, that families might look to for additional support and strategies?
Bryana: Go ahead, girls.
Sonnet: Well, I mean, we’ve created together something, cause we were looking for that support and we were looking for information that really spoke to us, you know, as the whole parent and how are we going to show up to help support a, a child that is going to be a teenager and going to be an adult and not just in that moment. And so we created with Bryana, Raising Children You Like. And it’s actually, it’s actually going to be, it’s a series of online video trainings, not just with tantrums.
And we’ll talk about discipline and connecting with your child and screen time and lots of different aspects of the parenting world of information that you can take and use to incorporate into your life as you, as it works for your family, but on your own time. And so the first one that we launched was Toddler Tantrum Toolkit. So I think that has been an incredible resource for me. You know, like we started this podcast because we were looking for answers and then we created this because we were looking for answers too so, you know, we don’t, we’re just learning, we’re just figuring it out.
Ayelet: You’re learning with some guidance and it’s wonderful. So that’s, uh, I’ve had a chance to look at it. It’s a beautiful course. So if anyone is interested in going that route, we will obviously put the link to that in the show notes. Bryana, what about you? What are some resources that you like to recommend to, to families?
Bryana: Some of my biggest inspirations for my work are Mona Delahooke and Janet Lansbury, Dan Siegel, Dr. Shefali. I mean they wrote some, some really powerful things. Mona Delahooke wrote a book, Beyond Behaviors. So we’re really learning and understanding the nervous system of ourselves and our children. And how do we promote, how do we see beyond the behavior?
So one of the things that we talk about all the time, I talk about all the time is, you know, behaviors are really just the gateway to what’s going on emotionally. And when we can tap into that, then we can actually see the child’s need. And when we start shifting to see the child’s need, we’re really going to help our children in a way that’s more profound.
Janet Lansbury, you know, she takes a very, you know, No Bad Kids and takes away the sense of shaming our children into listening and following directions. So she has a very, you know, she comes from Magda Gerber and the, the RIE philosophy. So it’s really child led and respectful and gentle, but still an effective way of raising children.
Dr. Dan Siegel and Dr. Shefali, you know, they both wrote two books: Parenting From the Inside Out, Dan Siegel, and The Conscious Parent, Dr. Shefali, that are really asking us to look inward and understand our own past, and how our past influences how we are raising our children today. What old wounds are being triggered in relationship with our child that have nothing to do with our child that we need to show up for, for ourselves. How do we need to, how can we repair it ourselves so that we can now really show up for our children in the way that we want to?
And I think all of these, you know, there’s so many wonderful resources. These just tend to be some of the ones that I really rely on that just really change our framework, shift our framework in how we see parenting, how we see our role as, as parents. I really think it kind of grounds us as mothers. We don’t have to see ourselves as these martyrs who know how to do everything perfect. And these Disney princesses who get everything done well and right, that we actually get to be human beings in this process who are alongside, our children are learning and growing.
So yeah, I just, I really appreciate those. And I think any parent at any stage in Parenthood actually can really benefit from these. And then, one more resource that I point parents to is Siblings Without Rivalry when you, especially when you’re adding in multiple children. Because I think that really creates a collaborative non-competitive atmosphere.
And I know some parents benefit from How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. That book gives more, like, scripts, and kind of trains us to even use some of this language that I’m talking about. So I think especially for parents who didn’t have great models, and who are kind of struggling with being triggered in the moment, that is a really hands-on practical book that, you know, I think can be very empowering for a lot of, for a lot of parents.
Ayelet: Agreed, Yeah, I actually, I also love the one that her daughter wrote, co-wrote, which is the How to Talk So Little Kids Will Listen. Yeah.
Veronica: I just got the audio book of that one.
Ayelet: Yes. Yes. It’s lovely. Perfect. Really great. They’re both perfect. Yeah. Excellent resources. Thanks so much. And I love, I love what you said Bryana about, about the Disney princess mother, right? That’s none of us, by the way. Nope.
Bryana: Even though I pretend to be, I do sing Disney songs all around the house. But I’m not actually a Disney princess!
Ayelet: Thank you so much. Sonnet, Veronica and Bryana, and thanks to all our participants of the Learn With Less® curriculum who are here, listening live as a benefit to our membership community. We’re going to continue the discussion and open up for a Q and A session for you all in just a minute, but for everyone listening from home or on the go, thank you so much for joining us. And we will see you next time.
