Lessons Learned About Identity, Ableism, and Systemic Health Disparities When It Comes to Birth
On this episode of the Learn With Less® podcast, we sat down with Val Pitaluga, of JoyCo Therapy, and Accessible Vacations. Val is a multi-passionate mom, wife, speech-language pathologist, and business owner. Her personal experiences as an immigrant and English language learner fuel both her professional work and personal advocacy efforts. Val has a background in Early Childhood Education and extensive experience working with children of all ages. Val’s husband is a quadriplegic after sustaining a spinal cord injury in a car accident over a decade ago. They met post-injury and bonded over their many shared interests, chief among them travel. They now share about parenting and traveling with a disability via their non-profit, Accessible Vacations.
We discussed:
- Val’s various social identities, and the privileges she holds leading up to the birth of her second son
- What can happen in a hospital when the system does not prioritize birthing people and their families
- Definitions of ableism, the ABC’s of Safe Sleep, and evidence-based practices around birth
- Val’s top tips for advocating for what you need before, during, and after your birth
- Why Val advocates for community-based support and leaning on practices of gratitude
Helpful Resources to Acknowledge For This Episode:
American Academy of Pediatrics ABC’s of Sleep
Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Pregnancy Related Deaths (CDC)
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Connect With Us:
Val Website / Facebook / Instagram / YouTube
Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest
Text Transcript for This Episode
Ayelet: Welcome back to Learn With Less®! Today, I have Val Pitaluga joining me. Val is a multi passionate mom, wife, speech-language pathologist, and business owner. Her personal experiences as an immigrant and English language learner fuel both her professional work and her personal advocacy efforts. Val has a background in early childhood education and extensive experience working with children of all ages.
Val’s husband is a quadriplegic after sustaining a spinal cord injury in an accident over a decade ago. They met post-injury and bonded over their many shared interests – chief among them, travel. They now share about parenting and travel with a disability via their nonprofit, Accessible Vacations. Val, thank you so much for joining me today on Learn With Less®… we have connected over social media in a variety of speech-language pathology and interest-focused groups, and I’m just so glad to be in community with you. You shared recently your birth story, and I just found it so compelling on so many levels, and I think it’s so important to share experiences like this in general. And so much of what we do here at Learn With Less® is focused on community and education, and the simplicity of what we all would like to be focusing on as far as early parenthood and early childhood. I just thought that this was a great story to share, and I’m so grateful to you that you have decided to join me today.
Val: Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for allowing me to share my story on your platform.
Ayelet: Well, so just to sort of get started, so now you have several children. How many kiddos do you have?
Val: I have two children.
Ayelet: Two kiddos. Yeah, the most recent addition to your family is this tiny human that you have attached to you right now, as we record and he is…
Val: Six weeks old? Yeah!
Ayelet: Six weeks old, amazing. So let’s just sort of get right into it. I’d love for you to share a little bit about what happened with your birth, what is happening, how you are now and that’s sort of the trajectory of the conversation that we’ll have today. But there’s a lot to unpack, because of your own social identities and the identities your family holds. So go for it. Let’s hear… Let’s hear it!
Naming Social Identities and Privileges
Val: Yeah. So I think in the post that we bonded over and where this idea started, for having me come on your podcast, was just highlighting, like you said, my birth story. So from the lens of how many privileges I held when I came to my second birth, my most recent birth. And so some of those privileges, and I think you you might read a piece of it, and you’re welcome to, but just off the top of my head some of those privileges were I did have a healthy, full term live birth, before the pandemic. So I had that experience of having my husband at every doctor’s appointment and having visitors at the hospital and all those pre-pandemic things. You mentioned, I’m an immigrant and an English language learner. I’ve been told I speak English with native-like proficiency. And so I did speak English when I arrived at the hospital. I am Latina, but I know that I don’t run a higher risk of having a severe maternal morbidity or dying, basically, while giving birth because of the color of my skin.
And still, my birth experience left so much to be desired. And I’m a healthcare professional, you know, so I just felt that had I not had all these stacked privileges, my birth experience had the potential to be, frankly, traumatizing. And you know, of course, part of that had to do with, as I mentioned in the passage, that I had a precipitous labor and delivery, right, so my son decided it was go time and it was like he was on a rocket launcher. It was a whole two and a half hours from I’m pretty sure that’s the contraction to having my baby on my chest.
Ayelet: I had the same experience with my second, as well. Yeah.
Val: It was wild. My mom, who stayed with my firstborn son, so our older son, Joseph, he will be three next month. And my mom had plans to stay with him. And of course, you know, as these things happen, it happened in the middle of the night, 11pm was when I had, 1130 lives and I had my first contractions. So my mom, who was coming to stay with him, was coming from Miami, and we live in Fort Lauderdale. So it’s about a 40 minute drive. And I mean, if she had been 10 minutes later, we would have just delivered him in the parking lot.
But yeah, so we arrived, like I said, I was crowning. My husband and I both speak English, we were able to very clearly say like, Hey, I’m crowning. I’m in active labor like, get me a room and part of it is probably hospital protocol. Part of it was probably not realizing the urgency of it. They had me sitting in the admission bay, like, nurses bay, asking me all kinds of questions. How many weeks pregnant are you, who’s your doctor but somehow forgot some like really critical questions, like what’s your group B strep status, like are you positive? So anyway, I’m sitting there in excruciating pain answering this, these questions like, Pitaluga, P-I-T-A-L-U-G-A!
Ayelet: Between contractions right? Oh my gosh.
Val: Right! And so, my water broke, and finally I got kind of annoyed, and I was like, Okay, my water broke and I need a room, now. And so they’re like, okay, take her to room seven. So I go to room seven, and I’m begging for an epidural, which, you know, in hindsight, full body sweat, shaking uncontrollably. There’s no way they were gonna get a needle in my back at that time, but I’m begging for an epidural. The nurse is like, no, we can’t. My husband is an amazing, amazing advocate. After our second labor, I joked with him that he should become a doula, he should be like the wheelchair doula.
Ayelet: Oh, my gosh, that’d be amazing!
Val: I’ve already branded it for him. It’s so easy. For some reason. He won’t take me up on it.
Ayelet: We’ll see!
Val: Right? So he was advocating for me. So like, for example, one of the things that really helped me with my first labor was having a mirror so I could, I’m very, like goal driven. So I could see my son’s head and I was like, Oh, my gosh, I want to meet this human so bad. Let me push harder. So he asked for a mirror and it was just like, the nurse gave him this confused look, and was like… a mirror? And we were like, okay, nevermind, moving right along. And then I think, like, the most dehumanizing moment of my birthing experience was when about an hour and a half after I delivered, the nurse walked me to the bathroom, barefoot, gave me a Peri bottle, and said, here you go. And then she was knocking and I was like, you know, there’s a lot of postpartum waste. I’m working on, on cleaning by myself barefoot in this tiny bathroom. No, I’m not done yet. So yeah, that was probably the most dehumanizing part of it for me.
Ayelet: I don’t know, because of my own experiences, because with my first, I was living in Europe, my husband and I gave birth – I gave birth, excuse me, I gave birth to my first while we were living in London, and, and we had a hospital birth. And it took a very, very long time. And I ended up having an epidural, and a forceps delivery. And afterwards, I was, you know, I was not in any position to get up off of my back and, and go clean up. So I had people helping me do that. My second, we were back here in the US, and I also had a precipitous labor, and we did not make it to the hospital. We actually were planning potentially a home birth, we wanted sort of like all the options open to us. But so, I certainly was, you know, cleaning up myself, but in the luxury and comfort of my own shower, and, you know, a very different birthing experience, and a bit like, you know, minimal tearing, and all of those kinds of things. So I honestly, like, I don’t know, what, what is the standard of care? What did you experience with your first birth after… after giving birth?
Evidence Based Birthing Options
Val: Yeah, so, it’s interesting, we have so many similarities. So I wasn’t in Europe, but I was in Ohio. So my second birth, obviously, happening in Florida. And my first birth was in Ohio, and I gave birth in a hospital called Dublin Methodist Hospital. And it is a newer hospital. So that was another privilege. Of course, they are very, very EBP-focused. They, for example, don’t use an overhead system at all, because they just want moms to be feeling peaceful and relaxed and not, you know, with all this sensory stimulation. And so it’s, it was a very calming and soothing hospital to begin with. But then also the standard of care was great. So I did have an epidural with my first…
Ayelet: Oh, sorry, just to go back. You said EBP, which which stands for evidence-based practice for anyone who’s listening, who’s not a speech-language pathologist or in the health, allied healthcare professions, yes. Sorry, please go ahead.
Val: That’s right. I’m sorry about that. But, yeah, so they’re very aligned with that what research says is best for mom and for baby. And yeah, I mean, like, that’s a privilege most people don’t have…
Ayelet: Right, which is bizarre… and reality.
Val: … and unfair. But also Yes, reality. So I did have an epidural with my son and I am so lucky, I have super easy births. And so after I delivered my son, the epidural was kicking off and I was able to walk to the bathroom. But my nurse held my hand and was actually kind of shocked that I was walking, she was like, you need to slow down! So she held my hand walked me there, obviously wearing, wearing my own sandals that I brought in, my flip flops that I brought in from home, and kind of walked me through the whole process of you know, icing the area, care and you know, the first 24 hours are crucial for swelling, and those are things so those are more things that I had to advocate for. I had to ask for an ice pack after delivering a seven pound baby with no pain management, you know and… with or without, you know, the swelling is gonna be brutal. So, so again, I had that experience with my first nurse, Wendy, that I will never forget.
Ayelet: I love that you even remember her, like she you know her name and everything you know?
Val: Yes, yes.
Ayelet: She partnered with you. She was present, she was part of the experience. Whereas the second one, yeah, very different.
Val: Absolutely. Yeah. And she, I mean, she honored everything about our family. I remember distinctly her, looking at… so my firstborn son was born on a Monday, she – I’m gonna get all emotional, now. She looked at us and said it had been a hard weekend on L&D, on the labor and delivery unit. And she really needed our, our birth, our family that morning, and she told my husband, he was the most like committed and involved dad I’ve seen in the delivery room in years, and she just like, thanked us for giving her a positive morning after a very difficult weekend.
Ayelet: Amazing. Yeah, that’s, I mean, again, you’re partnering with your healthcare team. That’s, that’s the idea, right? Like this is this is what quote unquote, should be happening. Alright. So back to number two. So you’re, you’re you’re told to go into this bathroom, you don’t have any shoes on, you’re not – it sounds like you weren’t given any time to like, sort of prep, you weren’t really given any materials to to help you. No icepack. No nothing, no instructions, no reminders of how how this is supposed to go? And then you’re told, “Are you done yet?” Right. You’re hurried out of the experience trying to do your best. Where is baby at this point?
Val: So, baby was still having his neonatal care. So he was being weighed and I think he was struggling still with some temperature issues that I think he might have been under the warmer. So he was he was in the care of – they had at that hospital, two nurses, so one for the mom and one for the baby. So he was with the baby nurse.
Ayelet: Okay, and this is relevant, because the next part of your story is about your husband’s experience.
Ableism In The Birthing Experience
Val: Right. So, I shared how it was dehumanizing for me. My husband, you also mentioned in the intro is a quadriplegic. So quadriplegic, for anyone who’s listening who may not be familiar with the term or may have this stereotypical kind of “Christopher Reeve” idea in their mind. Most people think they can’t move anything at all. People might think they’re event dependent, they’re always in a power chair, but that’s not really the case. Quadriplegic just means all four limbs are affected. So my husband does have weaker hands, he cannot perform fine motor movements. So things like gripping a pencil or a zipper or opening a can of coke or pop (depending on where you live). And so he, he struggles with fine motor movements, but he’s still very independent. He’s, you know, a young guy who was an athlete before his car accident. He’s still an athlete, he plays wheelchair rugby, and quite well, he has tried out for the Paralympics in the past. And he, you know, he’s in a manual chair, like I mentioned, he’s involved in our all of our parenting is mutual. He’s just a regular dad, that parents from a wheelchair. So all that to say he’s very capable, and…
Ayelet: And the healthcare professionals can see that he’s maneuvering his own chair. He’s quite, you know, clearly quite strong. He is a totally independent person, please continue.
Val: 100%. Yes, he wheeled himself into the hospital, as he does everywhere. And then, he was not… and this was just the beginning of the saga, he was not offered to hold our son after our son was born. And it wasn’t until, obviously, I was in a funny state, obviously, having just delivered – not funny I was in a postpartum state, to call it accurately what it is. So it took me three hours to realize that Oh, my goodness, you haven’t held Julian! So, I have the picture. It’s time stamped 5am, and our son was born at 2am. And that was only because I said, here, hold your baby. But at no point did the baby nurse or the mom nurse, or the attending physician who was also unfamiliar to me, nobody offered my husband to hold the baby, which I think we’ve talked about is rooted in ableism. And that is, that is a discussion that can probably take up a full episode of on its own. But very quickly, ableism is just discrimination on the basis of somebody’s disability status, and it’s rooted in the false belief that able bodies are somehow better than disabled bodies, and they’re not. They’re just different.
So my husband, again, comparing it to our first birth, he was immediately like any able bodied father and support person in the delivery room, was immediately given the baby to hold, bonded over him. I, again, I distinctly remember, Joseph was born and he was crying and letting everybody know that he had arrived. And my husband put on like a karaoke background of the song that he had sang to him on my whole pregnancy. And Joseph immediately stopped crying. So and of course, I was bawling when that happened, but But yeah, so all that to say my husband’s perfectly capable, and he was just denied that very special moment. And my husband is a super peacekeeper, he is, you know, he’s always, “Why are you stirring the pot? Or, you know, like, it’s okay. It’s not a big deal.” So he wouldn’t have said anything for sure. But I know that that’s something that was important to him – as it should be. And it was denied by the healthcare staff, or delayed for three hours.
Ayelet: Right. And ultimately, it was you who handed the baby to him?
Val: Yes, absolutely. And you know, and I think part of the real problem I had, too, is that at no point, did anybody take a step back and say, oh, wow, that was a wild birth and delivery, we’re acknowledging that and here are the things we could have done better. And we’re sorry that we missed the mark… because that alone would have meant a lot to me. If they had said, wow, you know, we should have asked your Group B strep status when you came in, or we should have given your husband the baby. And, you know, we’re sorry, it was a lapse in judgment. Because everybody has a lapse in judgment at some point!
Ayelet: Right? Well, and that just, acknowledgement marks at least one step of learning and hopefully doing better the next time around. That’s the whole right. But there was not that, right. So that’s why what Val is saying is so important, right? That is literally the first, tiniest thing that you can do. So what… were there other people in the room when you finally were able like to realize that your husband had not held the baby? Like, were there other people there who realized and saw that? Or was it just the two of you?
Val: Yeah, both of the nurses were in and out at that point. And, you know, I just think that they, I think with… so you mentioned, I’m multi passionate, I’m passionate about dismantling ableism and racism and all these other isms, as you know, but I think the problem with a lot of isms is that people don’t even realize they harbor them. And they’re not, like we said, willing to acknowledge them. And so, I think that they maybe were at a point where they didn’t even realize that they were being ableist, that they were denying this right to a father because of their perceptions of his abilities. So they thought nothing of it. Honestly, that’s, that’s my best guess. I don’t know. Maybe they’ll listen to this podcast and say, Oh, yeah, we did. We did realize it or not, but yeah, that’s all I can think of is maybe they don’t even know.
Ayelet: And there, it sounds like there wasn’t necessarily any kind of reaction when, when you were like, Oh, my gosh, you haven’t held our son. And if there was, it was so insignificant that it did not warrant any kind of realization that someone had. Yeah, yeah.
Val: No, it was definitely business as usual. I mean, yes.
Ayelet: Fascinating, hmmm. And all right. So continuing on, you had this experience with ableism with your husband. It sounds like there were, you know, moment after moment of what we call micro-aggressions. Right, these tiny little, quote unquote, I’m air-quoting myself when I say “tiny little”, because they all add up, and they all have an effect on everyone involved. And you’re both experiencing these things. Okay. So now you’re, I’m looking, I’m looking at your, your beautiful passage and the story. So you said you asked to be discharged less than 48 hours after you arrived. And that was because, number one, your husband was not offered to hold his newborn son at any time during the birth or aftermath. It was three hours… and then you were transferred to a room right? And now, what room was this? They can see who you are, who your husband is, what needs he has, what kind of room is this?
Val: Yeah, so and I actually so it was a not not a wheelchair accessible room. So this is a hospital in the United States where we have the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. So, by law, they have to have a wheelchair accessible room. And so, I mentioned that I have very easy births, and I’m very lucky to say that. I feel very, very lucky, I know that’s not the case for many people. But because I was feeling empowered by just having cleaned up my own waste by myself, I actually walked upstairs to the fourth floor recovery room, and denied the the hospital chair, wheelchair that they offered to transport me in. And so as I was walking up and out of the elevator I, because I’m married to a quadriplegic, I make a habit of making a mental note of accessibility features, I saw a wheelchair symbol on a doorframe in a patient room. So I thought, Oh, that must be the wheelchair accessible room – one of them, at least, on this unit, and proceeded to my room, room nine, and found out that it was not a wheelchair accessible room.
So, my husband again being the peacekeeper that he is, finds out that he cannot shower in that room. It’s not that, that bathroom is not… he can make it happen. The transfer from the wheelchair to the shower chair, the opening was not wide enough. And it just, it was not going to happen. And so he ended up going home, having to leave the hospital to come to our home, to use the restroom that night, our first night there and then came back, of course, to stay the night with me and with Julian, and so the following day, because I knew the plan wasn’t for me to be discharged before 48 hours, I asked my nurse, could we please be transferred to the wheelchair accessible room on this floor?
Well, imagine my surprise when she tells me, “No, we don’t have a wheelchair accessible room.” What? record scratch I was like, hold on. First of all, it’s, it’s law. And second of all, I walked past it on my way in, so I know you have one. So I told her, I said, could you please make sure because I’m like 99.9% certain that you do have one. So then in comes a couple of hours later, the nurse leader, apologizes, and she says I’m very sorry, I heard that you were given wrong information. We do of course have a wheelchair accessible room on this unit. But we’re still not going to transfer you to it because there’s somebody else in it.
Ayelet: … who… presumably did not need it for the for the reasons that you need it.
Val: Right. Presumably.
Ayelet: We don’t, we don’t know that, necessarily.
Val: No, we don’t know for sure, really. But, although I feel like she would have mentioned that, despite privacy laws that are in effect, she probably would have mentioned this person also has a legitimate medical need for it, which was not mentioned. So I just presumed that that’s the case. But yeah, so I was told it exists. And yes, we see that you have a legitimate medical need for it. And we’re sorry, I told her that my husband had to leave the previous night. I was told sorry for that. But also, there’s nothing we’re going to do about that. And so then at that point, I was like, Okay, well, then please discharge me because my husband deserves the dignity of using a bathroom that works. And we’re just kind of hanging out here and I’m feeling great. I’m obviously being left to my own devices, anyway. So can I please just go home. And so we did a couple of hours after that conversation with the nurse lead.
Ayelet: Let me just reiterate to people who are listening, like we’re talking about Val’s husband needing to go to the bathroom, right? We’re talking about necessarily showering, although that that is a basic thing that he should be able to do, because anybody else who is able bodied would be able to do that. However, we are literally just talking about relieving yourself. And like, being in a room with your family and supporting your partner when a new baby comes, and you cannot just simply use the bathroom. Literally cannot do it. Because just not a possibility. Okay, so there’s one more piece of this that I think is really interesting, and I think warrants, you know, part of telling the story, was this last part here about the time like was this… Did this happen the first night after your son was born?
Val: I really can’t recall…
Ayelet: Right, it doesn’t really matter, regardless.
Val: But yeah, I think it was towards the end, I want to say it was towards the end of our stay. Yeah, it was our last nurse that we had. So the last, like, 12 hours that we were there because I know she was the last nurse that we had who did… what we’ll talk about.
Ayelet: Well, and I mean, even just what you just said there is very important information because this is – we’re not just talking about one shift one set of medical professionals, one nurse, one set of nurses, one doctor. Like, this is consistent throughout the experience. This is clear that there is a lack of training at this particular hospital as opposed to the training that was experienced by hospital staff at the hospital where your first birth occurred, right? I mean, this is like a systemic issue in and of itself within the system of this particular hospital that there is a lack of training, awareness and ability to see what is happening… and I’m giggling because Val is just making the cutest faces to her tiny baby.
Safe Sleep Conversations
Alright, so this last part is about sort of a backstory about the ABCs of Sleep. So the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that all newborns sleep A, alone; B, on their back; and C, in the crib to avoid SIDS or sudden infant death syndrome. This is the AAP, the American Academy of Pediatrics, this is a, this has been standard practice for a number of years after an increase of SIDS deaths in like the 80s and 90s with young children. There’s a whole lot of stuff to be said all about, you know co-sleeping, bed sharing. You know, the ABCs of safe sleep obviously is there to prevent Sudden Infant Death which nobody wants. And there are cultural implications with regard to this, right? Because there are many countries and many places, many cultures wherein bed sharing co sleeping is the standard practice and ABCs of Safe Sleep does sort of negate this norm, and disregards that cultural informed practice and culturally informed care.
So, regardless of where you, listener, fall, in your own practice, on your own standard, what your experience personally has been, I think it’s really important to, number one, name the fact that the ABCs of Sleep obviously was created to help families do things to lessen the probability of sudden infant death syndrome. And also, there are so many different ways that people sleep next to their children. And the idea that there’s this dichotomy of a “right way” to sleep or a “wrong way” to sleep goes against and just negates the idea that there are many ways to do a certain thing, and feeds into this idea of such a divisive worlds in terms of early parenthood, right?
Where how we choose to put our babies to sleep, how we feed our babies, how how we do all of that, how we diaper. or like all of these things that feel – especially in like the American sort of way – or like you’re, you’re this kind of mom or that kind of Mom, you’re a cloth diapering mom or disposable diapering mom. And the reality is like, there are so many things that people do because of where they come from, because of the identities they hold, because of what is working or not working for their own family. And the idea that there is a right and wrong way to do things… It’s, I think we have to acknowledge that there’s a gray area. And yeah, that’s, that’s what I’ll say about that. So with all of that said, let’s hear what happened within your experience, though.
Val: Yes. And if I could just add, from my multi passionate point of view, a couple more things about the ABCs of safe sleep, even within the United States where that is standard practice, or at least to my understanding, it is that every birthing hospital, we fail to acknowledge the fact that within our country, there are women and families who may not have a crib, yes, we are not doing anything. We are not providing every parent with a crib when they’re being discharged from the hospital. I think there is a country I want to say Sweden, but I’m probably wrong that provides…
Ayelet: Finland Yeah, the baby box.
Val: …that provides baby boxes. And so it’s kind of the same idea that the baby sleeps in their own sleeping safe sleeping space. But you know, at least there are some countries that are making sure that you have this arbitrarily selected sleeping space, right. But we don’t do that. And so even within the United States, we are failing to acknowledge the fact that not every family has the privilege of having a crib or bassinet or some kind of, what we’ve deemed a safe sleeping surface. So there’s that. And then also, it also negates biology, right.
So when a mom is very, very tired and sleep deprived, I might really, really, really, really want to get this baby into his crib. But oh, my goodness, my eyelids are winning. And oh, no, now I’m sleeping with my baby. And does that make me the worst parent on earth? Does that mean I want my baby to die? Of course not. So I just wanted to add those two things. But anyway, we so we had been told, of course, that this is an American hospital and that they’re observing the ABCs of Safe Sleep, we were told what the ABCs of Safe Sleep were. And we were told before warned that any time that a nurse or any kind of medical professional would walk in, if we happen to be asleep with the baby, that they would just gently wake us up and let us know that they would be placing the baby in the bassinet. And you know, that was standard practice sure, for our first birth as well. So it was nothing new. We could agree to that, fair enough, great.
But the real problem came with the fact that I actually happened to biologically let my eyelids win, way more often than my husband does. And I had been quote unquote, “walked in on” asleep with Julian several times during our stay. And of course, I was only lightly asleep. I’m a light sleeper to begin with anyway, but you know, I would kind of gradually answer Yeah, no, I don’t need pain medicine, or Yeah, he had his newborn hearing screening or whatever. But I was still very visibly asleep with the baby in my arms. And the fact of the matter is that he was never taken from me to be placed in his bassinet. I can’t tell you if that standard practice, it certainly seen that way just based on the amount of times it happened, but…
Ayelet: Right, basically, they did not do what they said they were going to do.
Val: Exactly. Right, right. They made a big to do about you know, we’re gonna have to do this. And so they had every right if they had done it, I wouldn’t have expected it. I was kind of actually, in my head, thinking, boy, they haven’t done that a single time and That’s odd, because they had told me they were going to do this. But anyway, I’m not going to tell them to take my baby from me! So I just kind of chalked it up to chance… until, within the last 12 hours that we were there, the nurse came in and my husband happens to be asleep, or I don’t, I’m not sure if he was asleep, or he just had his eyes closed, but either way, appeared to be asleep with the baby. And the reaction was completely different. It was Sir! You know, these are the ABCs of Safe Sleep, and we’ve gone over them and I’m going to take the baby and I’m putting him in the bassinet.
Ayelet: Not… wow. So intense! Like, not even like, excuse me, sir. As you know, we’re going to have to do this. I’m going to take the baby now. Here we go. Right. like totally different tone, right? totally different. Like, oh, excuse me. Sorry to wake you. And…. right?
Val: Yes, exactly, exactly.
Ayelet: Admonishing him.
Val: Yes. And so to me, that basically… To me, I think that’s still rooted in ableism. And this heightened fear that because my husband is disabled, that he would be more likely to, you know, either smother our child or drop him or whatever, have any kind of adverse impact on him by sleeping with him, than I would. And, you know, as a side note, even if that wasn’t rooted in ableism, because, you know, I’m sure many people will listen to this and say, maybe you’re reaching, maybe everything isn’t an instance of ableism. And I respect that, I can, I can see that, you know, maybe some people think, your, your sensitivities are heightened.
But I just want to say, as a child of a single mother, that even just reinforces the fact that fathers have a different role to fill or parent differently than mothers. And I think that that’s really damaging to the family structure and society, because we do that unconsciously. So often, to fathers specifically, that we think that that, you know, they need to be different than mothers. And, and I just, I don’t know, I think you worded it beautifully about, there is no one right way to parent. And so you know, maybe the father does want to be gentle or wants to be the gentler disciplining parent, or maybe he doesn’t want to be the one to sleep with the baby, or whatever…
Ayelet: Or may just be the primary caregiver, right? Like…
Val: Or maybe the caregiver might be a single dad. And so you know, I think that either way, regardless of what it was rooted in, ableism, or fathers are different than mothers, or their… you know, I think either way, it’s detrimental to the family unit, to the experience of birthing a child in the United States, and it just really rubbed me the wrong way.
Ayelet: Me too.
Systemic Problems Related to the Birthing Experience
Val: And, you know, the other piece, I think you mentioned, really, that is key is that it was a systemic problem. It is a systemic problem in that particular hospital, and when I was contacted by their unit manager, I was kind of given kind of Band Aid fixes, you know, oh, well, we’re moving to a new building, so accessibility shouldn’t be an issue there or well, that nurse is no longer with us. I was told by her contracting company that she, that she would not be coming back… and Okay, like those things fix some aspects of it. But that culture shift is what I’m not really getting a feel that they’re going to really address and get to, which is, is what all of it is rooted in, in my opinion.
Ayelet: Yeah. Well, I’d love to just sort of shift gears a little bit and ask you, because of your own identities, because of your own experiences, and your own proclivity to like, stand up and advocate for yourself, right? Like what, for you, in your mind? What are some things that expecting moms or dads can do, who, you know, might want to be aware of things like this or hospital procedure or protocol, like the things that you experienced? Like what are some things or tips that you might give to people about either what they can do before they enter the hospital, anything like things they could write down? Or say or do or ask when selecting a hospital, things like that? Like, do you have any kind of sense of things that like, what you would do differently, or what you would tell your best friend who’s like having a child at that hospital who shares or doesn’t share any of the identities that you hold?
Val: Oh, that’s such a good question. And it’s loaded, it’s rich in answers! So my number one answer would be trust your instincts. Right. So like you mentioned, I am a really passionate advocate and this is a little bit of a rabbit hole that I’m going down, but when I was pregnant with my first born son, I was having some dental issues and I was given the go ahead by my OBGYN to get them addressed during pregnancy. You know, she said, You’re out of the first trimester and it’s now safe so long as you are not administered epinephrine. So, fine, so I go, I scheduled my doctor’s appointment. My OBGYN has to fax over a letter clearing me – of course, very importantly, to the dentist’s office, where she made that note, no epinephrine. Because, epinephrine is, I believe – my understanding – is synthetic adrenaline and it can actually send you into premature labor.
And so I’m sitting in the dentist chair, the doctor has the needle inches away from my mouth. And I’m thinking, don’t be that person. Don’t be that person. Don’t be that person. But of course, I am that person, so I stopped her. I stopped her, and I said, I just want you to know, I’m pregnant. And there’s no epinephrine in that, right? So I see her, like, grabbing the needle, and, like, putting it behind her bag and switching the vial, and she’s like, you’re pregnant? Um, let me look up the note. And oh, yes, of course. It’s right here in the patient notes! No epinephrine, sure! But I see her, like, changing the vial of what’s in the syringe. So clearly, there was epinephrine in it. And so, so therefore, my number one advice is, you know, trust your instincts. You know, so often, we like have imposter syndrome where we want to discourage ourselves. Oh, no, like, why would you know better than the doctor? Or why would you know better than the dentist? Don’t ask that. That’s annoying. Of course, there’s no epinephrine in that, of course, this is just the way that things are done.
Ayelet: Of course they have your best interests in mind, right?
Val: Yeah. And I want to say no, you know, if you don’t feel right, question it. Question everything, you ultimately have options in your medical care in, you know, what birthing hospital, even whether you go to a birthing hospital, as you mentioned. So that’s number one, is trusting your instinct. I would also… I’m very big about trusting the consensus of the community. So I had put out a question about what the best birthing hospitals in the area were, and nowhere on that list was the one I delivered at. And, in hindsight, I’m not surprised by that at all, you know, and when I specifically asked, Well, what about this hospital, but I was told, oh, well, my experience there was two decades ago. And I’m like, well, that’s not, that’s not comforting. Or, you know, and so it was, in hindsight, it was very easy for me to see that the writing was on the wall. And I, you know, I found a physician that I was very comfortable with, I felt her cultural sensitivity aligned with what I needed. And she only delivered at that hospital. So I made that concession.
And, you know, it was a fine choice for me, like I said, but it could have had the potential to be traumatizing if I didn’t have all these other benefits that I had coming in. And then the last thing is, just that talking to people that you know, and trust, every birthing experience is different. A birthing plan, I’ve never had one because all I know is that nothing ever goes according to plan when it comes to birth and delivery. But the more you speak to other people, the more you will know what to expect. So I am a very… oh, buddy.
Ayelet: Yeah! You got stuff to say about that, too. Yes, you do.
Val: I am an extrovert, but I don’t like to share like very private details of my life with anyone. And so you know, I didn’t know about ice packs in your nether region when you’ve just delivered. I didn’t know that. But if I was a first time mom, knowing what I know, now, I would be asking everyone, how did you take care of what was your postpartum care like, and I would ask different people, moms who had a C section moms who delivered naturally – because that care looks different, too. So I think the power of the community should not be undermined, you know, people are our best resource, always, I think. And so leaning on your community. Moms who have been there before, dads who have been there before. I think that’s the beauty of social media that we can connect with people during a pandemic, during lockdown. So barriers are kind of non-existent now to connecting with other people… and at the same time barriers are at the highest they’ve ever been, because we’ve got 5000 things pulling at our attention at any given time.
Ayelet: Well said, yes. And then I’d love to know if you have any resources that you can share that have been helpful for you while exploring any of these topics. But we’ve touched upon, which is so many things. But I think, you know, part of what we do here at Learn With Less® is just, you know, open up people’s ideas and minds to what’s out there and sharing great resources. So if there’s anything that you would like to share that’s been helpful for you in terms of thinking about things in terms of educating you on any of these issues as far as ableism. As far as the systemic issues of privilege and identity. I’d love for you to share a few of those right now.
Val: Oh, another loaded question. I don’t have any, like, “go to” resources. Of course, I’m going to point everyone to Accessible Vacations, because that’s just where we share, my husband and I share, about our life, kind of how some of these things show up in everyday life. I think normalizing disabled parenting is really important. I think reaching across the aisle and talking to people who don’t look and sound and parent like you is also really important. So, for example, I breastfed both of my boys and some of my dearest friends have exclusively formula fed. And I think that there’s a there’s a big debate about that “breast is best” versus “fed is best.” And we tend to, like, overly theorize these arguments and we’re like no like, biologically breast is best. There’s no other way. No, but science is so great, that formula is the same – fed is best if I don’t feed him, he’s gonna die.
But when you really put a face to that, it’s hard to be so stuck in your ways. There’s no way I could look at my best friend who formula fed her daughter and say, actually, breast is best and you did your daughter a disservice. There’s no way. Right? Because I know that’s not true. That’s, that’s factually inaccurate. And also, there’s a human behind there. And there’s, there’s two humans, there’s my best friend and my best friend’s daughter, who is one of my son’s closest friends. So I think reaching across the aisle, meeting with people who don’t think the way you do and then lastly, checking your own privileges and kind of being aware of it, I make a practice of that when I express my gratitude.
So anytime I’m looking around, and I’m thinking, wow, you know, I have food on the table, or, you know, wow, I have a safe roof over my head, or wow, I have a kind of animosity that like my options are endless for ABCs of Safe Sleep. I like to take that time to kind of take on someone else’s perspective and really think about what would it feel like to be a mom who didn’t have the luxury of having a crib at home? And maybe I want to put my child to sleep alone on his back and in his crib, but financially or space? I don’t, I have limited space? And I don’t, I can’t have a crib in my house? How would that feel? Or how would I feel to have to skip a meal to feed my child or what, you know, you name it.
I, so I do that during my daily gratitude practice. And just as I’m being grateful for things I have thinking about what it would feel like to go without those things and, and how that would affect my interaction with the community. Because the fact is that it does. People who don’t have a crib in their home are looked at differently, you know, and treated differently and face different obstacles.
Ayelet: Right. Well, I love that literally, the first thing we did when we started recording today was you acknowledged all of the privileges that you hold. So, there – like, thank you for modeling to us the things that we can all do and and acknowledge. Val, thank you so, so much for coming on today. And for having this conversation with me. I really appreciate it. Again, please, let’s go ahead and share where can people find you if they’re interested in learning a bit more about what you do.
Val: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Again. I’m so grateful. This was so great. And I can’t wait to hear the feedback and see if anyone else finds it useful. But my husband and I we run a nonprofit. It’s called Accessible Vacations. It was born out of our love for travel, but has since grown along with our family to include a lot of parenting and we are on Instagram @accessiblevacations, we’re on Facebook, @accessiblevacations, and we’re we have a website accessiblevacations.org and we’re also on YouTube, although we need to improve our presence there.
Ayelet: I obviously will be sharing all of those links in the show notes. And yeah, I cannot wait to share this episode with everybody. So thank you so much for joining me, and for anyone who’s out there at home or on the go, thank you so much and we will talk to you next time.
