Just what is parent coaching in early intervention?
On this episode of the Learn With Less® podcast, we sat down with Joanne Cazeau, of Koze Speech Therapy and @thespeechpathologist (Instagram). Joanne is a licensed pediatric speech-language pathologist and private practice owner who believes strongly in the power of parent coaching – working with caregivers directly to support their young children when providing early intervention services.
We discussed:
- Joanne’s professional and personal background that brought her to the work she’s doing today
- Disparities in clinical service, culturally responsive care, and the implications of biases held by practitioners providing speech therapy and other services
- How Joanne’s therapeutic approach has shifted from when she was working in a private practice to her work in early intervention working for herself
- The impacts of the pandemic on her outlook and therapeutic approaches
- Some of Joanne’s favorite therapy “hacks” when it comes to being creative now that she’s following more of a parent coaching / bagless style of therapy
- Joanne’s favorite resources to share with families or other professionals who are hoping to approach early intervention in this way
Helpful Resources to Acknowledge For This Episode:
More Is Better: Maximizing Natural Language Opportunities, by Lee Ann Jung, Ph.D.
Anita Zucker Center for Excellence in Early Childhood Studies at the University of Florida
Teach Speech Services, with Kacy Wickerson, M.A., CCC-SLP
Transplaining, with A.C. Goldberg, Ph.D., CCC-SLP and Chris Rehs-Dupin
Learn With Less® Bundle: get our favorite infant and toddler development resources (and save 70%)! Discover how to support and connect with your tiny human, without having to buy a single toy.
Free Infant/Toddler Development Blueprint: what are the four major areas of early development… and how can you use the pillars of Learn With Less® to support that learning, using the time, energy, and materials you already have?! Download our free blueprint today.
Learn With Less® Caregiver & Me Classes a developmentally based family enrichment curriculum for caregiver and infant/toddler learning. Classes available both virtually and in-person.
Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program: create lasting impact leading ‘Caregiver & Me’ classes with a high quality, evidence-based, “plug & play” program that’ll have families coming back again & again
Learn With Less® Stories: Testimonials from educators who’ve provided the Learn With Less® infant/toddler family enrichment curriculum and families who’ve experienced our programming.
Black Rockette: Perspectives of a black female speech language pathologist in academia, by Dr. Ianessa Humbert, Ph.D.
Things I Wish White Moms Knew About Black Motherhood, an episode of the First Name Basis podcast
Seeing White, Season Two of the Scene On Radio podcast
Diversity & Equity Toolkit for Coaches & Entrepreneurs by Trudi LeBron
Episode 68: The basics: justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, That’s Not How That Works Podcast
Examining Our Relationship to Language and Implicit Bias, Pause On The Play Podcast
Instagram Feeds to follow:
@Jrc_theslp
@phuonglienpalafox
@aaefortheslp
@decolonizeslp
@slp.meets.psyd
@pediatricspeechsister
@respectthedialect
@dionna.hearn
Connect With Us:
Joanne: Website / Facebook / Instagram
Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest
Text Transcript of this Episode
Ayelet: Welcome to the Learn With Less® Podcast. Today I’m joined by Joanne Cazeau. Joanne is a multilingual, New Jersey-licensed pediatric speech-language pathologist and early interventionist who specializes in identifying and therapeutically supporting young children with speech-language disorders. She is also the owner of Koze Speech Therapy, a pediatric private practice based in Bergen County, New Jersey.
In her earliest days as an undergraduate student, Joanne knew that her life’s work was to help children and their families improve their communication skills, Joanne believes in making speech therapy fun and functional. She knows that optimal learning occurs during positive experiences and that rapport is a critical component of a successful therapeutic relationship.
Joanne sees all children as having strengths to build on to improve their weaknesses, and to help them achieve their speech and language goals. She is passionate about empowering families, especially those from the diaspora, to support their children in achieving their full communicative potential through education, training and counseling. Joanne, welcome. Thank you so much for being here today on Learn With Less®!
Joanne: Thank you, Ayelet. Thank you for letting me come on!
Ayelet: I’m so happy to have you. Well, I just wanted to say first of all, I looked on your website. And I love how your tagline is communication is… communication for everyone, actually, not just communication is for everyone. But what you provide is communication for everyone. And I just love that. And I want you to sort of get into you know more about that, in general. But first, you know, I read your bio, but I’d love for you to just tell us more about your own professional background, how you got into the work that you’re doing today.
Becoming a pediatric speech-language pathologist
Joanne: Yeah, and thank you, I’m glad that you like that tagline. It took me so long to come up with something that I was comfortable with, and that represented what my practice was doing, and my practice values. So I guess I’ll jump into a little bit about myself. So I actually got into speech-language pathology in the roundabout, most confusing way. And we talked about that a little bit before.
So I actually was very interested in being a pediatrician… which I feel like there are so many similarities with what we do, especially if you’re working with pediatric populations with having that interest to work with younger population. So I really just had it written in my mind that I was going to become a pediatrician, and I was looking at pre med programs at all my colleges.
But an experience that actually put me on the path to engaging with a speech-language pathologist was when I moved to the US, I was evaluated by the district. And when I was evaluated, I was evaluated in English, and I spoke no English at that time. The only word that I knew was rabbit. And that was from watching Bugs Bunny! Sometimes we would play that, and then I knew what a rabbit was. And I could say it perfectly, but that’s the only thing I knew.
So I remember the person who was doing the assessment was just flipping through pages and giving me directions. And I had no idea what they were saying throughout the entire assessment. And I was crying, and I was in distress. And a few months later, we had this big old meeting downtown. It was in the Department of Ed and my mom was there and they were just chatting away, I had no clue what was going on.
Parents as A Child’s First Advocate
My mom was just very furious. And I still had no clue what they were talking about until we got home. And my mom said that they were trying to diagnose me with a language disorder and that she had advocated for me and said, Well, she doesn’t speak English. And she was assessed in English. So of course, she’s not going to meet any of your criteria.
And so my mom was my first advocate. And actually speech-language pathologists were like enemy number one in my mind, because I was like, this person did a very terrible thing to me. And they tried to take advantage of me. And so when I went into undergrad, I was still pre-med and I was a bio major… until one day I took a foundations to human communication course I loved it, still not realizing that this is the thing that I hated so much way back in the day.
Then, I took another course in that same department. That department was called something else. It was like communications something something something so it didn’t click to me that like this was the Speech and Hearing Science Center and that I was taking some of their courses.
Finding The Field of Speech-Language Pathology
When I realized what was happening, I was like, Oh, wow, okay, I really do like this. And I feel like, you know, if the thing that happened to me, if it happened to me, and I had my advocate, you know, my mom, then this could potentially happen to other children. And so that’s when I kind of took up an interest. And I said, well, maybe I could be the person that makes a difference, especially given the demographic of our field, that maybe what happened to me actually happens a lot more often than I thought. And maybe I could be the person that makes a difference in another child’s life. So that’s how I ended up pursuing the academic portion of speech language pathology.
And so, I did my undergrad at GW. I have Haitian parents, so it was not an option to… even though I was halfway through my four years. It was not an option to do five or six years of undergrad. And so I was taking 18 plus credits from junior to senior year just to try to finish my speech and hearing degree since I picked it up so late. And I was also a public health minor, so I was just like taking credits, taking credits. And by the time I was done, I was exhausted. And then I did my graduate studies at Howard University, I specialized… we had like a medical speech language pathology track. And that’s what I did.
I did my CF [clinical fellowship] in Baltimore at the Kennedy Krieger Institute. And I learned so, so much there, but I worked with populations, children who had complex medical diagnoses for medically fragile, and cognitive disorders, and then I moved back home because I was homesick, I really missed New Jersey. And so I moved back home and I did some private practice work. And I really realized that the work that I was doing, because of the demands that were placed on us, I really felt like I wasn’t doing my best, clinically. And so I dove into my own private practice, which has been working out great. And I have time to do things like this, with you!
Ayelet: Yeah, right! Yes, yes. Okay. First of all, I would love it if we could just specifically name what you, what you touched upon, about the demographics of our field, number one, which I am assuming, and I’m pretty sure I’m right, that you’re talking about the fact that our field is… I don’t have the actual statistics in front of me but…
Joanne: Right, 92%!
Ayelet: And I believe it’s 92. Yes, 92% white women. So, I did not bring you on to talk specifically about this topic. Nor do I think that you need to be the person to talk all about this topic.
Joanne: Well, let’s talk about it, though.
Speech-Language Pathologists are 92% White Women: We Need to Discuss Bias, Race, and Identity
Ayelet: But I’d love to talk. I mean, I’m happy to… tell us a little bit more if you can explain from your own experiences, some of the things that you feel like we’re at play, knowing what you know, now, as a grown woman with an education in a field now, yourself, as one of the 8% humans who holds a marginalized identity within this field, what do you feel like were some of the factors that contributed to the identification of you, as a child, having a language disorder versus the fact that you probably should have just been evaluated in a language other than English.
Joanne: Another language, yeah. So I feel like there are multiple things at play. And I will give credit to some things and kind of dismiss other things. So I know that discussing bias and race is not something that occurs at the graduate level, and definitely not at the undergraduate level. So I think that clinicians aren’t prepared to be able to make sound decisions when they are presented with a child that doesn’t speak English, or maybe speaks multiple languages. And they’re not really sure how to do differential diagnosis. I think that’s something that’s not discussed.
I think there are also clear biases that are not kind of brought to the forefront at the academic level, like, these are the biases that you might hold as a white woman… they like these are the biases that you might hold, like, with these different identities, and just being able to have open discussion about it. Because when I was at Howard, we talked about it a lot.
And I’m not necessarily sure that it’s just because it’s a Historically Black College, I just think that our educators were invested enough in the work that we did, and invested enough in our clients to be able to say, look, when you go out into the field, you’re going to encounter different people, these are the biases that you should take into account. And then let’s figure out clinically what you’re going to do to make sure that you’re recognizing these biases, I think that conversation just doesn’t happen.
And I can tell you just being at GW, so I had both experiences, right, I went PWI [Predominantly White Institution]. And then I also went to a predominantly Black University, a historically Black university. And some of the things that I experienced from people who had PhD’s… some of the things that they were telling us… one, I was thoroughly offended by, and two, wasn’t true. And three, like there was just no discussion beyond what was said, no one had the ability to challenge anything. And I felt like in my PWI experience, I was the challenging Black student, I was the only I was the only Speech and Hearing science major who was Black and female, black and female, ooh, double, like double whammy, and my entire class.
A Clinician’s Biases and Assumptions
And so a lot of things that were said to me, I would challenge them. Like I had one professor, very esteemed in our field, who said that Jamaicans and Jamaican natives do not speak English, and that, like threw me all the way back. And I said, well, if they don’t speak English, what do they speak? And she said, Well, they speak Patois. And I was like, okay, but like, if you were handing out, you know, like a survey to like all Jamaica, and you said, circle all the languages that you speak, they would circle English, because Patois is based off English, and they were colonized by Britain. And then they would say, and I also speak Patois. And so that became a whole conversation of contention.
And I was like, labeled as the difficult student in that class. And I had that experience throughout my PWI journey. And it’s alarming to me that someone, you know, who holds such an advanced degree… if that person can make that statement, I can only imagine what’s happening everywhere else in the field. So I think it’s like, one, these conversations aren’t had, but two, these are just these people’s biases like these are these clinicians’ biases and assumptions and throw in a little hint of racism in there, and you got a good ol’ pot. So yep, yeah. It’s a lot of things look at a lot.
Ayelet: A lot of things. And we will also be sure to link to a ton of great resources [see above], because we brought up some pretty important discussion topic. And if you are someone who’s listening and would like some more resources on this topic, we’ll be linking to things like that in the show notes. So Joanne and I will have a conversation about what those might be. Obviously, this topic is ingrained into all of the other things that we’re supposed to “supposed to,” quote unquote, supposed to talk about today.
But I want to, you know, revert back and ask you about your own therapeutic approach, because you mentioned about how, number one, you worked in a private practice, you wanted a little bit more flexibility, you wanted more control over your own life and lifestyle. So I want to hear a little bit about specifically your therapeutic approach and how that has shifted, if has shifted from when you worked in a private practice to working more in early intervention for yourself in your own practice.
Shifting into Private Practice as a Clinician: Toy-Heavy Therapy to Bagless Therapy in Early Intervention
Joanne: Yeah, for sure. So when I worked in private practice, I think one thing that we kind of had to recognize is the private practices, especially when insurance is involved, there is a pressure to have more clients and to be more productive. And so I kind of got stuck in that cycle of seeing upwards of like, 45 to 50 clients in a week. And it felt like a rotating door kind of a process. When you are seeing that volume of clients, and you know, there’s a restricted amount of time, it’s not like you can say, hey, you know, I’m feeling really tired. Can we delay our session by 45 minutes, because you’re scheduled back to back a lot of times.
For me, the therapy became a lot of grabbing toys, and doing the session that way. It became a lot of doing a lot of articulation, drill activities, a lot of things that I felt like in that moment, immediately, it took care of their therapeutic needs, but I wasn’t sure that I was being my best clinician. And the way that I could describe it, the best, is that I was seeing the clients but not treating the clients and saying it out loud is so cringy because as a therapist, I would never want to assess myself as not treating a client. But it felt that way to me, like clients were just coming in and out. And I was seeing them and I was doing activities with them. But I really felt like I really wasn’t treating them and doing my best therapy. So I didn’t feel good about myself and the kind of therapists that I knew that I could be in that space.
And so everything was also so toy heavy, like I had my big ol bag and everything was in a Ziploc bag. And it was just like toys, toys, toys, toys. Whereas, I really wasn’t taking time to talk to the families about what to do at home besides like, this is your homework, I want you to do these drills, let’s do like initial T’s for homework. But I really wasn’t, the carryover wasn’t happening. And parents would tell me, I just don’t have the time, I just don’t have this. And I didn’t have the tools to tell them any better, because I was just like, well, sit down to play with your kid or like sit down and do these drills.
We Don’t Need to Cling to Toys: Early Intervention is About Daily Routines and Interactions
Whereas when I transitioned into more early intervention, and working using the home based model, especially given the climate that we’re in with COVID, bringing in the toys, one, was just a hassle because then you have to wipe everything down and make sure that you’re not transmitting and transferring things for myself and for my other clients. But also, too, because in early intervention now, the expectation is that you’re not bringing toys in. So I was so used to clinging onto toys and holding on to toys and that was like my, you know, my saving grace, like, oh, we can do Pop The Pig, thank goodness, like I’m gonna pull one of these out. Whereas with early intervention, it’s like, Nope, we don’t expect you to be bringing in toys. And they kind of have people monitoring!
I felt like I was freaking out for like, the first week, I had no idea what I was doing. I was like, What do you mean, I can’t bring toys? Because sometimes you go into the home and the families don’t have toys. So I think that what that’s done for me is it’s taught me how to be a lot more creative. It’s taught me how to use what families have.
And it’s also taught me how to bring families into the activity, so that maybe whatever mom is doing, we can get involved with and we can still target skills, but it’s not necessarily that we’re playing with a specific toy. So that’s really helped me a lot. And then, I see the carryover happen a lot more. Because if we’re making a sandwich with mom, or maybe for helping her with the laundry or with dad, Whoa, that was not inclusive at all. Or if I am playing to just – I just caught myself I’m like, oh gosh!
Ayelet: Yeah!
Joanne: Two years of training with AC Goldberg and I still am just not getting it right. So if we’re playing with parents, or if we’re completing a routine with parents, and if we’re doing maybe a laundry routine with parents, since this is something that they’re going to do any ways, then that it takes out that pressure from them that makes them feel like I have to sit down for five minutes or 15 minutes and play a game. Whereas now, a lot of my families are carrying it over because it’s already part of their routine.
Helping Families See the Value of Embedding Skill Development in Everyday Routines
So it’s been beneficial to me. And it’s also been beneficial to the parents, because they see the value of just taking one activity that they’re doing, and embedding a skill into it. So I feel like that’s opened up a whole new world for me. And now I have a cart, trunk full of stuff and they’re all organized very neatly, but I don’t touch them! I might take in a book every now and then. But now it’s, it’s almost like I really don’t have a use for toys, whatever we can get inside. And we can just do whatever.
And we can still find a way to target things. And I’m not anti toy by any means. I love toys. I think they’re great. But I think the mindset shifts for me, especially with early intervention being like, Nope, you can’t take your bag in there, has been, you have got to figure out a different way, and a different way has been working for me, that was a really long winded answer.
Ayelet: But you know what, it resonates, as you might imagine very much with this person, as in, me. Sorry, I’m raising my hand for all the people who can’t, can’t see us, right? Yes, I love just number one that yes, it’s not about being anti toy. It’s about utilizing what families already have. If they have toys, I bring them in [to the play]! If the child is playing with a favorite toy, of course, that’s gonna come into the play. But one of my clients right now is really into spatulas. And his family has several different colored spatulas as in like the the like, what’s the word? Not scooping? But like, oh my gosh, what’s the word for like when you’re…
Joanne: Like, curved?
Ayelet: Yeah, it’s like the curved one for like, the edge of the bowl. Not like getting something
Joanne: Ayelet, you’re asking the wrong person. I don’t cook a day in my life.
Ayelet: But there’s they’re both called spatula, right? One kind of spatula is like the flipping kind for. And one kind is like for scooping the icing or whatever off the edge of a bowl and like getting it in, right. Anyway, regardless, spatulas, great toy. But like, that’s what we’re gonna play with. Right? So, for instance, for me, like I find, if I am going to bring something into a session, then it’s usually something that I think the family might already have.
But if I bring it, it’s like, oh, you mean you we can use a salad spinner in play? Oh, well, the speech therapist brought it. So it must be okay. Right. So that’s like sometimes a strategy that I use to like, get families more buy in to like, actually utilize the things that they have at home as play objects, right. Anyway, just a fun, just a fun little side.
Joanne: Yeah, no, that’s great!
Parent Coaching in Early Intervention: Seeing Clients vs Treating Clients
Ayelet: I would love for you to just like outrightly name, what to you do you feel like is the difference between seeing clients versus treating clients? Because that was a really interesting note that you said, and I’d love for you to just talk a little bit more about that, if you can.
Joanne: Yeah, so I feel like… and I think I mentioned it before, because of the volume of people that were coming in, they were just coming in and I was doing the session. So I knew that that was taken care of. But just having the time – and time is so precious. And I’m figuring that out now, like time is a luxury. And we don’t talk about it enough. But when you have so many clients coming in, and there’s just… there’s enough time to grab something or think of a quick activity.
Whereas I feel like now, because I do have the luxury of time, I can sit down and like think about some creative things to do with my kids. And think about some creative ways to target their skills, and then give them carryover activity that is actually really functional to them and really invest a lot more time into my clients than I was before. Because another thing that we have to think about is the documentation. When you’re dealing with insurance, you kind of have to be like on your P’s and Q’s. Whereas I feel like I’m not spending, you know, that much time on my documentation. I’m not spending all of my time talking to reps and trying to figure out about a claim or this or that.
So I feel like I have more time to invest into my clients. And that looks like physical time sometimes, too, like sometimes the session is going really well. And I don’t want to stop and I don’t want to interrupt the kid because they’re doing so well. So we might go over a couple of minutes. And that’s okay, because I have the ability to time myself that way. And parents really appreciate that. Because sometimes in private practices, it does feel like at the 30 minute mark, they are out the door because you have someone else that you need to see.
The Value of Time as a Clinician and as a New Parent
So just given that extra time to really dive in do extra research. I have a client who has a complex and a rare diagnosis and just having that time to do extra research… and my family has told me, Wow, we’ve never had a practitioner actually take the time to read. Like, I was reading ASHA articles and I was sending to them and I was highlighting some notes and they said we’ve never actually had any of our practitioners do that for us and take the extra time to look into this. So I feel like I’m treating my clients in that way. Like I’m investing. I’m investing my clinical skills a lot more than I was before. I hope that makes sense.
Ayelet: Absolutely. I love that. I think it’s, I think it’s a really thorough answer. And yeah, I think time… time for you as the clinician, time as in helping a family reframe what this time is for, right? And reframe what we can do in a certain amount of time. As far as like, it’s not just the clinician comes in with their bag of toys and treats the child, it’s actually a family affair.
It’s, we’re utilizing this time that you’re already spending in the family to make it even more enriching, make this a language-rich environment, and help the family, the caregivers see that they can integrate everything that they’re doing with their child into their daily life there, and then participation to support communication in this case.
But if it was another kind of developmental therapy, it would be that as well. And that’s what the parent coaching model, routines based intervention, and bagless therapy are all about. So I just love, I love that. And I think time is is absolutely such an interesting piece. Because, in all of those ways, it’s it’s so important. I’d love to hear more, too, because you talked a bit about COVID, how much of an impact has the pandemic had on your outlook on therapeutic approaches?
Partnering with Parents and Caregivers in Early Intervention
Joanne: Well, a couple of things have changed. Clearly, our clients can’t see our faces. And so what I’ve had to do, which works, right, it works, because I’m already in the home. That’s another thing when I was at my practice, you know, the rooms are small, they have limits on how many people can be in there. And a lot of times parents would just take off and go, and come back at the 30 minute mark. So because we’re already at home, and I have my mask on, I’m asking, you know, for like my Arctic kids, or like my speech delay kids, I’m having the caregivers actually model, right? So they have to be an active participant because Oh, Miss Jo can’t see her mask off.
So parents are actually doing and caregivers are actually doing a lot of the modeling, which works out because we’re already at home, anyways. And because of the way that the session is structured, it is a parent coaching model. So parents are having to be there anyways. So the modeling, I feel like that’s helped a lot, you know, in comparison to what was happening in the clinic to what’s happening now. The parents are doing the coaching and… not the coaching, I’m doing the coaching! The parents are doing the modeling, which has been super, really helpful.
I think also because, you know, taking in toys, you’re kind of like risking transmitting things, that’s been really helpful, because I’m not bringing in toys. And because I’ve adopted that new mindset, I don’t have to bring in toys. So I think that’s really helped with COVID a lot. The part that was a little teensy bit nervous about was, you know, I’m going into people’s homes in the middle of a pandemic, but I’ve been able to keep safe. And I’ve told parents and I’m really strict about keeping my mask on.
And parents, they understand, I think they see the value of you coming into like coming to them and bringing the therapy to them. That’s huge for so many parents, especially parents who are busy or experiencing time poverty. So I think that’s been really helpful, even though it’s a little bit worrisome… But you know, fingers crossed, everything has been okay. Yeah. Is that what you were getting out? When you asked that?
Ayelet: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, really just open ended question about what your experience has been. And then we’ve talked a lot about different kinds of everyday items and things like that. So I would love it if you could share just a few of your own favorite therapy hacks when it comes to being creative now that you are following more of this, like parent coaching or bagless style of therapy.
Therapy Hacks in Early Intervention: What can Parents and Clinicians Do?
Joanne: Yeah. So I’ve had a lot of sessions that in hindsight, it was like, Whoa, that was really kooky. But then it worked in the moment! So I have one of my kiddos, who… we played with a big candle and a little candle for 30 minutes. And he loved it! He scratched it, sniffed it, took it off of the stand that it was on, we rolled it around, we passed it back and forth. We talked about the big one and little one, and he absolutely loved it. And I know that grandma was sitting there like what the heck is happening, but he loved it.
We got lots of really good language out of him, he was able to say up and down, and we’re talking about a kid who has his own playroom and he has millions of toys and he has lots of aunts and uncles who just spoil him, but he wanted to play with a candle! And I got more language out of him playing with that candle because he likes to smell things. I got more language out of him working with that candle then like ever, ever, ever, ever, doing all of our sessions with all the things that he has!
I have another kiddo who just like picked up mirror and that’s what he wanted to play with. And so we played peekaboo. We talked about who we see in the mirror, we reflected other things off of the mirror, and he got a kick out of that. Absolutely loved that. Another kiddo who picked up the remote, really because he wanted to watch TV and I was interrupting his TV time because I walked in and I was like, Oh, well that’s gone. Because otherwise he would just be staring at the TV and completely ignoring me.
And so we played with the remote and there were lots of buttons on there. Some of the buttons were a little bit harder to push than others. Some of them were really squishy buttons. We opened up the battery pack in the back we took things out, we’d hold them and he absolutely loved it once again!
When parents realize that oh wow, he likes to play with the remote! Because you know, there’s like those fancy phone remotes are like there’s those fancy toy phones and parents will go out and buy them. And they make really cool noises, etc. But it’s like, Oh no, this is like your Time Warner Cable remote, and your kid loves it. And we’re doing so much… so much with it. So I feel like I’ve had pockets of that happening where my parents are really shocked and actually really excited because they’re like, oh, wow, we don’t need all of those things.
Then I look back at the session, and I’m like, oh, okay, that was pretty, that went pretty well wasn’t really expecting, that’s how it would have gone but works pretty well. Or sometimes you’ll you’ll think, you’ll have a plan in your head when you go into the session of oh, this is what we’re going to work on. But they happen to be interested in something else, then I’ll just dive into that.
Child-Led Activities vs Adult-Led Activities in Early Childhood Education and Early Intervention
When I used to work at a private practice, I never would have felt comfortable following a child’s lead. And I know that sounds terrible coming from a clinician, but I felt more comfortable knowing that it was an adult led activity because I knew what targets we can bring up. And I knew what to anticipate and accept would happen. And you know, the vocabulary targets we could use and everything like that. Versus where now I am.
And it’s still process! Right now I am in the process of accepting child led therapy and child led play, where sometimes I’m like, Well, I’m not really sure where this is going or like he’s really interested in this or she’s really interested in that and not really sure where it’s going. But just being confident enough in knowing that whatever happens, we’ll still be able to target skills. It doesn’t have to be super structured, but we’ll still be able to have fun and target skills, which I think having fun is like the number one priority, too. Yeah.
One thing to plug in, too, that I’ve stepped away from and I didn’t notice that I was doing, is writing goals about unpreferred activities. But I think that we all kind of go through moments as clinicians where we’re like, oh, my gosh, I can’t believe I used to write those goals. I used to write eye contact goals! Terrible, terrible stuff. But now like, I refuse to even see those goals. Because if it’s unpreferred, why are we doing this and also by replacing the expectation on children that they should tolerate unpreferred activities.
That’s something that I’ve stepped back away from, which also supports the whole child led approach to therapy, is that let’s let them do what they want to and what they’re interested in. Because if they’re enjoying it, then everybody’s happy. And chances are that you’ll actually be able to target more skills that way.
Child Led Approaches to Therapy: How do We Help Families Learn to Follow Their Child’s Lead?
Ayelet: Right. And actually, that’s like, basically the definition of play, right? Like we know, that’s all of the like Early Childhood Education Research, all Early Learning Research, early intervention research, that points to the fact that young children are going to utilize play, right? I mean, you have all these quotes, right, from Maria Montessori and Fred Rogers, and all the people saying, like play is the work of the child, right? Literally, that’s how they learn is through play.
And when we let them explore, and we follow their interests, then we can provide the language around those things that they’re doing, how they’re moving, what it feels like, how it looks, what they might do next, and target all of those beautiful pieces of language and speech, as well. Right? How does it Oh, what is that word? Right? Like you mentioned the T’s earlier, right? Like, oh, let’s let’s see how many words that start with a /t/ we can fit into this activity? Right. And, and that does like it requires some reframes from the clinician. And also, we know that that is what is most, that is the most efficient and what’s what’s the adjective version of effective effictacious? Effica…. Regardless,
Joanne: You’re asking a person who speaks four languages, and I have no clue… Efficacious? I think that might be a word?
Ayelet: You’ve got two speech pathologists, who together could speak at least six or seven languages. We just can’t figure it out. You know, it’s effective.
Joanne: When when the words are coming, sometimes I honestly give up. I’m like, having a little bit of word retrieval issues, not really sure which language I’m trying to pull up, or if this is even a real word. So let’s just go ahead and talk about something else!
Ayelet: Or a medley of several different languages!
Joanne: Exactly, exactly. Oh, my gosh so funny.
Resources for New Parents and Professionals to Support Early Language Development
Ayelet: Gosh, all right. Well, let’s hear about a few of your favorite resources to share with families or with other professionals who are hoping to approach early intervention in this way.
Joanne: Yes. I mean, besides Learn With Less®?
Ayelet: Oh, thank you.
Joanne: So Learn With Less® is definitely number one. I feel like we met each other in a very odd way because I was actually just using the hashtag #learnwithless because I was like, Oh, this is like what I’m doing. And I was like, Wait, this is a whole program.
Ayelet: It’s a thing!
Joanne: Yeah, I was like this is a whole thing! And then I was like, Oh, let me follow her. And then we got connected by like, some weird happenstance or something. I think I might have tagged you in something. So definitely the Learn With Less® curriculum I feel like would be so beneficial for so many people. I myself have fun and into the category of more toyless play. So I also have lots of different resources. And I usually direct a lot of my families to a lot of really cool Instagramers. And a lot of blogs just to kind of like get out information. I don’t have anything in particular.
But if I see something, I’ll just kind of like shoot it out to parents, I’ll ask them like, if they’ve read this or like, I just read this really cool article, or I just saw this really cool reel, which like, reels are so quick and easy. And parents can read them, or watch them. So I’ll just send it to them. I don’t have any like particular go to resource, but yours is definitely your Instagram page. And your website is definitely one and I’m definitely moving away from Toy therapy or like Toy directed therapy. So I also refer them to some of my blogs.
Ayelet: Yeah, well, we would love obviously, to share those things in the show notes. But in general, where can people find what you’re doing? You know, where you are on the internet and all the amazing content that you’re creating?
Joanne: Yes. So I have my information is not very consistent. But I started out as @thespeechpathologist on Instagram…
Ayelet: Which is the best… and most amazing handle!
Joanne: The name is so good that I refuse to change it to my company name. I’m like, No, I like this one. And when people look up “speech pathologist,” it just comes right up. So I am @thespeechpathologist on Instagram, which I don’t even know how I got that name. And nobody had it before me, it just, boop! It happens. But on my website, I am Koze Speech Therapy. So K-O-Z-E speech therapy dot com, and my Facebook is the same it’s Koze Speech Therapy. And then all of my contact information is on my website.
Ayelet: Amazing.
Parents are Their Child’s First Teachers: Parent Coaching is Essential with Early Learners
Joanne: If I can leave your listeners with one thing, I don’t remember who exactly had that statistic. But I did a training that was called Keeping Babies and Children in Mind. And it’s a seven part training and it’s actually offered for free. I think as long as you’re in early childhood, you can just sign up on the Montclair University website. And the statistic was that if you see a child for 2 30-minute sessions, or one one-hour session. You’re seeing them once you’re going to that house once it was mostly geared towards early intervention, so you’re seeing them for one hour in the week.
But children typically spend upwards of 84 hours with caregivers and with parents in the home or in their natural setting. So I thought for me, that was a big mind frame shift for me. Because when you really look at these numbers, the families and the caregivers are spending the most amount of time with the child. So why wouldn’t you direct your therapy and why wouldn’t you shape your therapy to support them? Especially since we know that parents and caregivers are their children’s first teachers? Why wouldn’t you shape your therapy to support them so that it really feels like they’re getting 85 hours of therapy?
You know, like once you’ve given all the resources so for me that was really big, and then I understood okay, you know, pulling out Potato Head or like Pop the Pig and like doing that, and then taking my stuff and leaving. That’s not very helpful. So I think that one to 84 hours for me just kind of blew my mind because I never thought of it in like a numerical way. Sometimes you need numbers to be able to, to get it. So I wanted to leave everyone with that statistic.
Ayelet: That’s awesome. Thank you. It’s so true. I mean, because again, it’s like that, that half an hour or one hour of an entire week. Think about how many hours there are in a single week that that the caregiver spends with that child. And so if we can, it’s the adage of teaching a person to fish right or giving them a fish versus teaching a fish. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Teaching fish teaching how to fish. Thank you. Yeah. We’re on fire here today. Joanne, thank you so much for coming onto the show today. It was so great having you.
Joanne: Of course. Thank you so much Ayelet!
Ayelet: Are you an educator or therapist looking for new ways to serve families, to use your knowledge to support new parents and caregivers in your community, I’d love for you to check out the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program.
When you submit your application, we’ll make sure you’re a good fit. If you are, I’ll be gifting you my exclusive, private training all about how to create lasting impact leading “caregiver & me” classes with a high quality, evidence-based, “plug and play” program that will have families coming back again and again.
All you need to do to get an invitation, is fill out the quick application form at https://learnwithless.com/certification, today.
