If you’re looking for tools to help navigate the “parenting” portion of parenting infants and toddlers, look to the Language of Listening
On this episode of the Learn With Less podcast, Ayelet speaks with author Tracy Cutchlow about one of the most difficult and important areas of raising young children: when our little ones are driving us crazy, how do we keep it together ourselves to raise a “good” human beings and support their development?
Ayelet and Tracy discuss the basic principles of Language of Listening®, ideas and research behind positive parenting strategies (and why these are often effective), and when parents can start using Language of Listening® strategies should it resonate with them
Tracy is an award-winning journalist, author of the international bestseller “Zero to Five: 70 Essential Parenting Tips Based on Science,” and editor of the best-selling brain development books, “Brain Rules for Baby,” “Brain Rules for Aging Well,” and “Brain Rules.” Tracy is a licensed Language of Listening® coach, she is a mom, and she’s a recovering perfectionist, herself.
QUICK ACCESS TO LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE:
Language of Listening (developed by Sandra Blackard)
Get notified when Tracy’s course opens
Zero to Five: 70 Essential Parenting Tips Based on Science by Tracy Cutchlow (Practical reference to what the experts say)
Brain Rules for Baby by John Media (Edited by Tracy; she describes it as the “why” and Zero to Five as the “how”)
The Whole-Brain Childby Dan Siegel and Tina Bryson (Emotions, teaching kids how their brain works)
Parenting From the Inside Out by Dan Siegel(Understanding your own triggers and childhood attachment)
CONNECT WITH US!
Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest
Tracy: Website / Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest
TEXT TRANSCRIPT OF THIS EPISODE
Welcome to episode 52 of the Learn With Less Podcast. Today, I am speaking with Tracy Cutchlow, an award-winning journalist, author of the international bestseller “Zero to Five: 70 Essential Parenting Tips Based on Science,” and editor of the best-selling brain development books, “Brain Rules for Baby,” “Brain Rules for Aging Well,” and “Brain Rules.” She is a licensed “Language of Listening” coach, she is a mom, a recovering perfectionist, a triathlete, a yogi, and a nature girl.
Tracy, welcome to Learn With Less!
Tracy: Thanks so much.
Ayelet: I have asked you to come onto the show today to speak about a few issues related to positive parenting, and specifically, the “Language of Listening,” but first let’s just hear about you and what brought you to the kind of work that you’re doing today.
Tracy: Yeah! Well, as you mentioned, I started out in journalism, I was used to being very competent in my career, then had a baby, and didn’t feel so competent anymore!
Ayelet: Very relatable!
Tracy: Ha! What really brought me to this work was feeling scared that I didn’t know what the heck I was doing and, because of that perfectionism that you mentioned, my approach was to really research all of the possible options to find the absolute best, and really use science as a way of guiding me because, after having edited those brain development books, I knew there was such good information out there that I needed, that other parents needed. But I wanted to know, you know, like one level deeper – like, how exactly would I apply this as a parent?
Ayelet: Right!
Tracy: Yeah, so if the books would say that Sign Language is great for communicating with a baby and here are all the benefits it has for brain development, but I wanted to know like, how did researchers teach those babies Sign Language?
Ayelet: Right, sort of those actionable, applicable strategies and tips we can all use to actually implement things that we learn about!
Tracy: Yeah, very practical… and just, you know, most books have a lot of words in them! Ha! I’ve been there, but with a newborn baby, you just don’t have the mental bandwidth for all of that, to dig back through all the books I read and try to find just the “how to” tips was too much. And so the book that I wrote is really… for me trying to solve those problems, I figured I was not the only one who would have them. And so my book is really like, one tip per page, chunks of information, very practical, and pretty! You know, it doesn’t look like homework!
Ayelet: Right! And a coffee table parenting book – amazing!
Tracy: Yeah, yeah, that’s really what it is. But then the way that I came to Language of Listening in particular, you know around age two or three, things start to get difficult in a different way. There’s so much, what feels like defiance, and things come up from your own childhood – like, things start triggering you that you didn’t even really know were there.
And so I went off on a search again to find the best tools that I could for discipline, and then I felt like Language of Listening really synthesized everything that I knew about brain development, and was understanding about positive parenting. It’s really like a simple framework for it, so…
Ayelet: Great, well, we’d love to hear a little bit more about that. If you can tell us about that. So, if you can tell us about the Language of Listening, and really just get us started on some of the basics about its foundations, and what it is, exactly.
Tracy: Yeah. It’s really, it’s a way of communicating with children that is really focused on acknowledgement around their strengths. I think so often, we’re focused on what our kids are doing wrong, and what we’d prefer them to be doing instead – that deficit model, really. And when you think about it, you know, how does that interaction really leave your kid feeling about themselves?
And I think for many of us, the model that we have for how we might communicate with kids is very much about like, “well, I expect you to obey me immediately, to just hear what I say because I’m the one who’s asking you.” And when they don’t, then we take it personally, and it’s an affront, and then it’s gonna start escalating and… there’s no good place to go from there.
And what I’ve found with Language of Listening is that when you start from this place of connecting with your child and really acknowledging where they are in that moment, it’s amazing for cutting down on these power struggles, just like not even getting into the escalation. And it’s just a really accepting way of being – like, really paying attention to who your child is and accepting that, and looking for ways for them to meet the needs that they have in that moment. And I think about walking in on a kid who’s… well, here’s an example.
I walked in on my daughter in the bathroom. She was up on the counter spraying the mirror with a water bottle. And my first thought was, “Aaah! What are you doing up there? What are you doing?!” you know? But, what I was able to say instead, because of Language of Listening, was, “oh, you’re spraying water on the mirror!” Because the first step of it is to just say what you see in the moment. And doing that lets you come to the situation without a judgment about it. Which, of course, if we start with the judgment, then we’re only setting ourselves up for defensiveness and power struggles and all of that.
Ayelet: Exactly. And it’s amazing how early our children learn that they need to defend themselves against a judgment! I mean, I find that just fascinating.
Tracy: Sure, yeah! Nobody wants to feel like they’re wrong, right? Or they’re bad or… Yeah, it’s funny. I think kids are clearly their own people. They have their own ways of doing things, their own wants and likes, and I think there’s this period where it’s kind of hard for us to “get” that, because as infants we’re so used to them being so reliant on us, and we’re doing everything for them, and when their personality pops out, it’s just sort of like, “wait a minute!”
Ayelet: What happened, exactly! Yeah. Wait a second, you’ve got your own way of doing things. And it’s not always in cahoots with how I’m doing it!
Tracy: Yeah, we have to learn to really live together! And to understand that we can’t really control another person, and our role with our child is more about coaching than behavior management. So the other thing that that “say what you see” step does is just to allow you to kind of pause for a second…
Ayelet: I was going to say, that’s a really useful tool, pretty much for any relationship!
Tracy: Right! Exactly! Yeah, so in that kind of split second, I was able to realize, like, ok, if you’re going to play with water, the bathroom’s a pretty darn good place for that! And so, then I was able to notice more about the situation, right? And instead of getting upset, I said, “oh, it’s almost like you’re painting with water. Look at these little patterns!” And then, you know, “here’s a towel for you to wipe up the mirror when you’re done!”
Yeah! So, it really could have been a completely different situation where she would have felt bad about being up on the counter, about making a mess on the mirror. All of that. And instead, she leaves feeling like, “oh, I’m a creative person, making a painting on the mirror!”
Ayelet: Right.
Tracy: And, my mom expects me to clean it up when I’m done.
Ayelet: Exactly. And you leave… I mean, I think for many parents, it’s so important to reframe this in… well, this is not about just allowing our child to run wild. This is about actually managing our own expectations and allowing us to look at why we’ve made a rule, what good that rule is, and what it is about our parenting and our discipline strategy that’s important and what’s maybe not so important.
Tracy: That is so critical. It’s easy to make a ton of rules and not even know where they came from. But yeah, to sit, step back, and say, what are my real values here? Like, when we can operate from our deepest values, that is huge.
Ayelet: And look what we’re doing for our children when we do that!
Tracy: Absolutely. Yes.
Ayelet: It’s not always that simple, obviously.
Tracy: It’s such an important guidance for us, and a way to stay connected with our intuition. You know, I do value creativity and independence, and so I was able to go back to those things in that moment.
Ayelet: Yeah! Well said, I love that.
Tracy: Well, what’s behind – you know there’s a lot behind all of that, right?
Ayelet: Yeah!
Tracy: You said, you know, this is not just about letting your child run wild. And, that’s true. What it’s really about is understanding that children have several needs that they are meeting. They’re meeting one of those needs at every given moment, and what we can do is look for what that need is, and help them meet it – but in a way that’s ok with us. S
o, in Language of Listening, which was developed by Sandy Blackard out of play therapy, she has synthesized the needs of children down in to three: connection, experience, and power. And yeah, so when you’re in a situation with your child, instead of just reacting or taking something personally, it’s so useful to have this lens of, “oh, which need is my child trying to meet right there?” You know, with the bathroom, it would have been “experience,” right? And so I could look at that and say, “yeah, ok, she’s getting that experience. The rule that I have is about cleaning up afterwards.” So, I can focus on that and it’s all good.
So, experience is about how children use their bodies in the world, what they can do. And connection is obviously about that feeling of love and belonging. And power, such an important one! To know that all of these three needs are healthy needs for our children to grow. And they have this natural drive to meet those needs!
That kind of flip of “power” being a healthy need was really important for me – to see that yeah, we all need that feeling of control over our lives and to look for ways to provide that for my child just in small ways throughout the day. You know, with a toddler, it’s really about, you know, “do you want the blue cup or the red cup?” Very simple choices! That gives them that sense of control.
Ayelet: In a world that is rapidly expanding for them, brain-wise, like, literally, they do! That is, I think such a key point, is that they need to feel in control about something when their world is getting bigger. I mean, we all have that! It’s an innate human need, for sure! So that reframing of, “ok, well you can have the power within this specific way that I’m comfortable about giving you either of these choices.”
And I think that’s really the key, because I do think we hear, “oh, give your child choices!” And many parents and caregivers think, “well, too many choices isn’t good for a child,” or “well, you’re giving him too much control because you’re giving him so many options,” but to me, it’s really all about giving two options where you’re comfortable with either of them. And ultimately, it’s essentially, you know, “you can have either of these things so that we can get to this thing that I am actually in charge of.”
Tracy: Haha. Yeah, you know, you have to pay attention to which scenarios you’re giving you child the option in, for sure. It’s not like, “do you want to bike or drive?” – that’s not a fair choice! And you’re not giving them options when you really want them to pick this one. It’s not like you can have an agenda behind it. And yeah, and it’s not like, “what would you like for breakfast, one of these six things?” It’s really just these two choices that you’re ok with.
Ayelet: Exactly. That’s great. So, when can parents start using these techniques related to the Language of Listening, would you say, Tracy. Is it something that families also with infants and toddlers of all developmental levels can use, as well?
Tracy: You know, with an infant… well let me first, there’s actually three parts to it, and I mentioned the first one, “say what you see,” being your first reaction in any situation. The next is, if you see something that you don’t like, to give a “can do,” which is something your child can do that meets that need that you identified.
Ayelet: Experience, power, and connection.
Tracy: Yup! An alternative that would help them meet that need. So, if they were jumping on the couch or something, and you had a rule against that (I used to have a rule that you could only jump on the couch because we lived in a condo with people below us!) but a lot of people have a rule that you can’t jump on the couch! Then you would think, ok, my child needs to be very physical right now with their body, so the alternative that I give couldn’t be something like “why don’t you go do that puzzle,” it would be more about where you can jump or when you can jump.
So, that’s the “can do,” and then the third part is to “name a strength.” And that’s such a beautiful… I love really integrating that into so many of our interactions with our kids. And that is about looking for whatever – whatever you can come up with! It could be… even in a moment where if they’ve thrown something. Could you even find a strength in that, like they threw something soft. Or that they were about to, but they didn’t, and they really showed self-control. Or it’s much easier when they’ve shared something with their little friend, and you can name that for them – “you shared that, that was kind, that was generous.”
Ayelet: Yeah – that’s nice. Or even, like I think with your daughter spraying the mirror, what would you say in something like that situation?
Tracy: I could say, “Ah! It almost looks like you’re painting on the mirror! You’re really creative.”
Ayelet: Yeah.
Tracy: Or I could say, “You know what? You wanted to play with water, and you found a great place to do that – the bathroom. That’s really responsible!” I don’t know – there’s no formula to it, I just…
Ayelet: Yeah! Just examples.
Tracy: It could be… and you could also maybe, if you forget that part, you can come back later and then say, “ah, you know when that happened, I noticed this about you.” And the beautiful thing about it, too, is that because it’s so specifically tied to what they’re doing in that moment, they really have this proof. That yeah, this is the kind of person I am!
Ayelet: Yeah – exactly! Not only is it specific, but you’re naming that quality. And I love that because we hear so much about the sort of empty praise that often happens when we’re trying to do that, right? Like, “good job” or “you’re doing great,” or something like that – “you’re so good.” But if we give an actual quality or attribute, then it’s much more powerful because it’s an actual example of how we’re doing that.
Tracy: Yes. And it’s important to define those things because they’re nebulous, right? Like, what does it mean to be “good?” What does it mean to be “smart?” That doesn’t mean anything.
Ayelet: Yeah. “Responsible” and “creative” and “generous” are much more specific.
Tracy: Yeah, and for them to know in that moment that this particular thing that they did means that… you know, the reason it’s so key is that people – all of us! – we behave based on who we believe we are. And, you know, as parents, we’re helping define that for our kids by the words that we use.
Ayelet: Yes. I think, in a roundabout way, we’ve already touched upon the fact that this is something we can do from birth! Especially those things. You know, naming qualities or… one thing that I encourage families to do, just as a means to engage in an interaction with a baby who’s really just sort of “inputting” everything, is to name an action that they’re doing or talk about what it is they’re doing, and really narrate what a child is up to, or what you’re doing. But, giving, even – what’s the word – assigning qualities or traits to those behaviors is something you can do from very early on.
I’m thinking of when my now 13-month old was just starting to sit up around 6, 7 months, and he would start grabbing something from within a basket. I mean, you can certainly say something like, “I love how you’re getting that from right there – you’re really working hard! I love how you’re problem-solving – you’re figuring that out!” And then it’s all just about naming what’s going on, but also the qualities of what that looks like.
Tracy: Yeah, so… And it’s good practice for us, too, you know?
Ayelet: YES! Hahaha.
Tracy: So, you know, for infants, you’re not gonna do the “can do” stuff! But, around 18 months, 2 years.
Ayelet: Yeah. Wonderful! Alright, let’s take a very brief break to hear a word from our sponsor, and then we are going to hear a few tips and resources from Tracy about the Language of Listening and other positive parenting strategies.
Ayelet: Alright, Tracy. You’ve given us so many great, basic strategies about what Language of Listening is and how we can implement it. Can you give us a few more tips for parents and caregivers about different ways to best implement strategies like the ones you’ve described, maybe… I think one thing that we’ve just touched upon that is that idea of maybe starting early and then getting the practice, because, of course, it’s one thing to say, like, “Look! Here are the steps that you can do. Here are the tenets that are this method or set of strategies is based upon.”
But what helped you specifically, for instance, when you were learning about it. What were some of the things that helped remind you to use these strategies and what are some tips that you like to give to parents and caregivers?
Tracy: Yeah, the first is to just focus on “say what you see,” and don’t worry about the rest. And that’s… it’s so simple, but it’s amazing how powerful that is! And I think that’s kind of just a simple phrase to keep in your mind, like, “say what you see, say what you see.” And then, as you, you know, you’re not going to think to do it every time – which is totally fine! But what you do start to do is notice the difference in your kid’s reaction when you do it. And that is really what keeps you going with it.
Ayelet: It’s so powerful – that reaction piece.
Tracy: Yes. So, it’s about the practice, it’s about giving you the space to not remember to do it! But then you start noticing, I mean, I don’t always think to do it. And I see the difference in my own child. And then, just adding one piece at a time.
Like, don’t worry about the “strengths” yet, and then when you start adding in the strengths, just start with a positive interaction. Yeah, your kid just knocked over the blocks and then started putting them back together and just, “ah, you’re persistent.” And then move on to like, “oh, how can I find a strength in this moment?” Where my kid just snuck into the back of the car and ate a bunch of candy! Hahaha! “Oh! You didn’t eat all of it…”
Ayelet: Right! That’s good, yup… “Look how independent you are!” Hmm, I don’t know…
Tracy: Ah, yeah!
Ayelet: But you’re right. There’s always something that you can say. But so much of this is getting into the habit of thinking ahead a little bit, which is so hard, but I find personally to be both one of the most challenging parts of parenting a toddler or preschooler – but also, when I get it right, one of the most gratifying. That, like, I, when I get it right, I feel practiced, I feel just like an Olympic athlete, like I’m polished! That’s the word, you know?
Tracy: Yeah! I got it!
Ayelet: I got this! And I know that when I pick the right strength to say, or I have the right reaction, that that is going to really work hard for me – work hard for me, and work hard for my child. For the rest of the day, sometimes – which is amazing!
Tracy: And the cool thing about this is that even when you start going down a path that you begin to regret, you can immediately switch and it still works. It’s pretty amazing.
Ayelet: Tell us a little more about that as far as “you can immediately switch.” What might that look like?
Tracy: Yeah, what’s a good story about that… Like, say, with the candy. If I started by saying, “What are you doing in here? Why… You’re not supposed to have that!”
Ayelet: The normal reaction of most of us, yeah!
Tracy: Yeah. And then, what would she do if I said that?
Ayelet: Probably get a sad face, or she’d maybe defend herself or…
Tracy: Yeah. Or, just, you know, “well, I wanted this!” If I kept going down my original path, it’d be like, “well, you’re not supposed to have that. You know better. We’ve talked about this.” Whatever… But if I kind of stop and think, ah, no. This isn’t getting us where we want to go. I literally could just in the moment say, “Ugh, yeah, you really wanted that candy. You wanted it so bad that you snuck into the car to get it because you knew that I didn’t want you to have it. That changes the whole tone of the conversation.
Ayelet: That’s amazing! And it is, when you say it, it’s like, oh my gosh that’s so obvious. But it does, it completely turns everything around. You’re acknowledging what she did, you’re acknowledging how it makes you feel, and then she learns that it was not the right way to do it – without you ever saying, “don’t do it!”
Tracy: Yeah. I think, you know, one thing it’s given me is a sense of taking the long view. Like, it’s not actually that important that she ate a couple of pieces of candy right now, it’s more important that she learns this concept of self-control and like, what tools could you use if you really want something but you know you’re not supposed to, or maybe it’s about putting the candy out of sight, or you know, those are the important things that I actually want to teach her.
Ayelet: Right! How to learn how to self-regulate, actually.
Tracy: Yeah. And I understand that that’s going to take so much practice. And really, so this was just an opportunity where she practiced, didn’t quite get it right. I can make space for that, you know. But yeah, you asked about ways of practicing this. Starting with, “you want” or “you wanted” is a really useful one for acknowledgment.
Ayelet: Yeah. Just that… I feel like I’m thinking of so many times in the last couple of days that if I had been using that, it would have been so much smoother! So… that’s it! Haha! And then what are… Tracy, can you just give us a few of your other favorite resources for parents who are interested in learning more about Language of Listening and other strategies like this?
Tracy: Yeah! Well, like, for a whole range of positive parenting strategies, of course, I think my book is an excellent resource! Because it really, I kind of went all out! It covers sleep, feeding, potty training, discipline, play, executive function, and all of it.
Ayelet: And that’s called “Zero to Five.”
Tracy: It is – let me show you! It’s pretty!
Ayelet: There it is, oh so pretty.
Tracy: It’s got this one tip per page kind of thing.
Ayelet: It’s almost like a cookbook or a recipe book, which I like the idea of because it’s like, it breaks it down into just, yeah, one tip, one recipe, one thing that you need to think about right now, or today!
Tracy: I love that! Haha! The ingredients for raising a…
Ayelet: A happy parent and a happy child! There’s your tagline! That’s awesome!
Tracy: And then on my website, it’s zerotofive.net, I’m going to be developing a training, specifically on the Language of Listening where we’ll go more deeply into all the pieces, but the founder, Sandy Blackard, also has trainings, as well. And her website is languageoflistening.com.
Ayelet: Awesome, we’ll link to that, as well, in the show notes.
Tracy: And then, you know, there are definitely a lot of other influences. Dan Siegel is one – “The Whole Brain Child” that he co-authored with Tina Bryson. And if you’re… it sounds like your audience is toddlers, but once you get into that preschool phase and start noticing the triggers…
Ayelet: We’ll all get there, eventually!
Tracy: Yeah. Their book “Parenting From The Inside Out” I found really helpful.
Ayelet: Great!
Tracy: And then just… yeah. I’m part of this kind of mindfulness, simplicity, thoughtful parenting realm, so books along those lines have been useful, too. I’m happy to send a list along.
Ayelet: Please do! We’ll put them all in the show notes. That would be really helpful. Thank you so much, Tracy! And thanks to all our participants of the Learn With Less® Curriculum Online Program for Families who are listening live, here. We’re about to continue the discussion and open up for a Q&A session for you guys in just a minute. We’ve got a lot of questions here in the comments! For everyone else listening from home or on the go, thanks so much for joining us, and we will see you next time.