How Sara Discovered The Confidence To Serve Families Holistically In Her Community and Beyond
In this episode of the Learn With Less® podcast, Ayelet sits down with special educator, music educator, parent educator, speech therapist, and Learn With Less® facilitator, Sara Moreno of Mi Casa Abierta. Sara has been instrumental in the community and growth of the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program, and has been utilizing resources from Learn With Less® for the last several years. Sara has also taken on the task of translating and interpreting all the materials (lesson plans and caregiver handouts) for our “caregiver & me” programs into Spanish so that we can more inclusively and responsibly serve families from both multilingual (Spanish, English) and monolingual (Spanish) households.
In this episode, we discuss:
- Sara’s educational and professional background, and what brought her to the work she’s doing today
- How Sara found the confidence to serve families more holistically, both in her own community in San Salvador, and beyond
- Why the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program has been so valuable and transformational both for her practice, and in her personal life
- The various new avenues she has explored due to her experience with the Learn With Less® program
- Why the curriculum transcends culture and parenting philosophy, and is universally accessible to families who simply want more tools to support and connect with their young children
Helpful Resources Related to This Episode
Learn With Less® podcast episode: Educating Parents to be Their Child’s First Teacher, with Rachel Kammeyer
Learn With Less® podcast episode: How to Impact Your Community With Parent Education and Parent Coaching Skills, with Laurel Smith
Learn With Less® podcast episode: How Lesley Took Her Existing Skills as an Educator, and Started Serving Infant/Toddler Families In a Holistic, Meaningful Way
Learn With Less® podcast episode: How to Use Your Skills as an Educator or Therapist to Serve Families Holistically as a Parent Educator, with Allie Glazer
Learn With Less® Bundle: get our favorite infant and toddler development resources (save 70%)! Discover how to support & connect with your tiny human, without having to buy a single toy.
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Text Transcript of the Episode
Ayelet: Welcome, Sara, officially, to this conversation, I wanted to just chat with you today, because you have been such a big part of the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training and Certification Program over the last year plus… in so many ways, and I want to, number one, just take a moment to thank you for, for being part of it. And it’s such a pleasure to to know you to be in community with you and to have you be part of this program and how it’s grown, and all of the benefits that you’ve added to it. So I wanted to really share that with our larger community and make sure that you have a voice here and that we want to just amplify what you’re doing. So can you just give a little bit of a background about you know, who you are, your professional, educational experiences, where you are in the world? And yeah, let’s start there!
Sara: I’m so happy to be here. And I’m so glad to be part of this program. And well, my name is Sara Moreno, I’m from El Salvador. I’m a special educator, but I have a lot of interests in so many areas, as you know. I’ve been studying some certifications in music education, and early music stimulation. And also in well, I did Learn With Less®, and also I have a master’s in speech language therapy. So yeah, that’s like what I’ve been doing. I’m a violin teacher. And I also give music communication and all that stuff in national, like a music institute here. That’s what I’m doing. And also I have particular clients in speech therapy, that’s what I’m actually doing. And also, I’m the founder of Mi Casa Abierta. That’s a space where I give parents and educators tools to be with their child and use music in that process of seeing them grow.
Ayelet: Yes, so many amazing, amazing experiences. And I think I mean, it’s kind of hard to believe that you do all of those things, and that you have all of those capabilities, because you’ve also done such a beautiful job of bringing together all of your interests, all of your skills, all of the things that make you thrive and light up. And you’ve created this very robust and very sort of diverse career path for yourself, that’s part traditional employment and part entrepreneurship and a lot of experimentation. Yeah, that’s something just I think that’s such a neat part of who you are, and and what has drawn me to you and to work with you. It’s just been such a pleasure.
So I want to ask you a little bit about what drew you to Learn With Less®, and the Learn With Less® program, and in general, just the brand, the podcast, the books, all of those kinds of things… For you. What was it that sort of drew you in? And how did you find us because I love knowing that there are people out there from all over the world, right? I think for me, it’s very easy to speak to, especially people in the United States, because that’s where I live currently, but also, say, specifically in Europe, because that was where I lived when I started this work. But I know and you know, and many people know that so much of what we talk about in the Learn With Less® curriculum, and all of the things that we do is applicable to all over the world. So I’d love to hear your specific perspective on all that.
Sara: Yeah, I found you on Instagram. I really love Instagram. And a lot of my resources come from there. And I found you because I was looking for SLP s. And I was like starting to study in that area. And here in my country, you can study the be an SLP [speech-language pathologist]. So you have to look outside. Here, the special educators are the ones that take that job. So I started looking for people that I felt like had an approach similar to what I already knew. So I really loved that you were using like not having to buy anything because that was something that I was feeling like I was not enough and maybe it was not that I was not enough but that I didn’t have all the things that some speech, some SLPs have.
So when I realized that I didn’t need anything, actually anything… And that I could use anything I had and that families had… it was like a new world. And… it was like, I really love to find you because I, you know, you gave me like the confidence to use what I knew and to feel like an SLP. That was something that was very hard for me because that’s not my main career! Yeah, that was the way I found you. And then I actually give like groups of music initiation, like, like…
Ayelet: Like a music enrichment class?
Sara: Yeah, the first steps in music for some kids. Yeah, I also believe that music is connected to all development areas. So I was so happy to find you, because I call you what you taught me to those music groups and also for my individual SLP work.
Ayelet: Right. Because as if you’ve been listening to the Learn With Less® podcast or following Learn With Less® for any measure of time, you know that our four pillars are play, talk, sing, and move. So music is a big component of what we do, we have some nod to music and all of our podcast episodes and books, you know, Understanding Your Baby and Understanding Your Toddler, we encourage families to use music in so many different ways. And then, of course, in our Learn With Less® “caregiver and me” classes that we hold throughout the world with licensed facilitators.
You know, music is a big part of what we do and how we encourage families to be with their children. So I guess that’s a good segue into the program itself. And I think it would be interesting to hear, because you already were leading classes, right, you had your own curriculum that you were developing. So what then was the impetus for you to also invest your time and your energy and financials into a program that would give you something different. Like, for you, what was the benefit and value of that?
Sara: I feel like, first of all, you can learn from so much things, sometimes journey to look like for something that is specific, just when you learn it, you know how to connect it. And that’s like a philosophy I have. But also, I think that the thing that made me feel like a stronger connection was the thing of buying stuff and not having to. You know, and before being in the program, I was the one, the teacher that goes to any store, and starts to look for things for therapy, or for classes, or for whatever, even when I didn’t have the plan, you know, I went and “oh these could be useful someday. And these too, and this could be useful too!” And actually, now I understand that it doesn’t work like that, because you get like so frustrated that you will never have materials for everything. But you can use anything so that I don’t know how to explain that.
Ayelet: Yeah! That was, I mean, it is the reframe right, you have to adjust your own perspective. Because I think it’s so interesting, Sara, how you say that. Because I think a lot of professionals feel like that, right? I remember being a speech-language pathologist and at least the first five years or more of my career and going to the dollar store or going to garage sale or going to the toy store or watching someone on Instagram who’s some big, you know, influencer in the early intervention or therapy space who’s talking about how great this toy or this activity is. And it’s like, yes, that’s wonderful. But that’s not the point! But I agree, it’s, it’s how we come into our professional journey thinking, Okay, it’s the tool that’s going to be effective to work with families. And on the other side, I think as a parent, my own self, when I became a mom, I felt that, too! This pressure to have the latest and greatest and best and most developmentally enriching toys. But I knew also that like, Oh, my gosh, this is not necessary.
And the more I met with families, and the more I became more comfortable in my own skin, as a mom, I was seeing how much we could do with just the basics. And for me, I was living in a new country when I had a baby. So I didn’t have all of my therapy materials, for instance, in the garage, or in an office or somewhere. So I was starting from scratch, which actually was so good for me! And so I would maybe go down the street to the local thrift store and find some very basic kinds of things, and then show my friends how you could use this in so many different ways. But over time, even those toys that I would get became less important. And it was much more about the empty milk carton or the paper towel roll that I actually just happened to have around that I would hand my baby and he would love it and play with it. And I was like, oh, let’s sing about it. Let’s add more language around it. Let’s move and do fun things with it, right? Let’s play with it. That was literally how Learn With Less® grew up.
Sara: You know, it was funny that at the beginning when my approach like my mindset changed, you don’t have to buy things. It was so interesting because parents came sometimes and asked me what did they have to buy? And they asked me if I could buy the things that we use in therapy. So I explained I started like to ask them to bring me the things that they had. For example, even I know that my kids, my kids, they’re not my kids. But my clients, I know that they had toys. And I was not like get rid of the toys… It was like, bring it bring the toys that they love! I, in the therapy, I improvised. And I, I taught them like you can do this, and this and this, and you don’t need to buy anything. So I started, like, including them in therapy and tell them to do what you do in Learn With Less® groups, like give them the model, and then ask them to practice in front of me to make them feel comfortable and confident that they could do that.
And also, I wanted to mention in this line that when you have like this mindset that you have to buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, it affects your personal life, because it affects your financial Yeah. And it affects also, for example, we want to have a not minimalist life, but less stuff. And you want to do that. And you want to have an organized life in the inside and in the outside in your home. And you have a therapy room in your home, and you have a lot of material that interferes with your personal life. So it’s something that was amazing for me. The other thing that I don’t want to stop mentioning is that for me, before the program, it was like hard to give advice to the to the moms and dads because I’m not a mom, and understanding that I don’t have to be a mom to give great tools and to help, really help them. It was amazing, because it’s a big part of the program telling us like, you don’t have to be that to help. So yeah, that that was another thing that made me feel like a big connection with with the program and made me value a lot of the information.
Ayelet: Right. It’s not just about having access to this specific curriculum, it’s a whole mindset shift, and then working through your own confidence and ability, your own self concept as a facilitator and the person in your community who can be a resource.
Sara: Yeah. And I think that we’re the people that is like thinking about getting in or not, you know, they have to know that this is not about if you’re gonna give these classes if you’re gonna lead “mommy and me” sessions, it’s not about that! Awesome if you do, but you don’t need to like enter thinking about this, because this can enrich your practice in so many ways. Even if you’re just a mom, like because you can connect this with anything, anything you’ll learn can be connected with what you already do. That’s amazing.
Ayelet: I would love to hear you expand on that. Because obviously, a lot of the time when someone applies to the program, their end goal is to have this ability to offer these family enrichment classes, right. That’s that’s the whole point to them. But as you say, and many of our other facilitators have expressed that there’s so much more to the program than just that end goal. And in fact, people have even said, like, I got the value of this entire program and all of the mindset shifts and building my own confidence and learning about marketing and things like that. Even if I never had even taught one Learn With Less® class, like I got my money’s worth. So I would love to hear more from you about like, can you speak to some of those other pieces? Obviously, there’s the end goal of being able to utilize the Learn With Less® program, but what are some other ways that this program has impacted you in your life?
Sara: Yeah, as I said, using other materials, like boxes, and blankets, pillows, and books, magazines, all those things, the use of that was amazing. Like it opens your eyes to the use of all these things, and not just for giving the sessions. You know, also, if you are in the therapy room, you can use it for a lot of goals. And also, if you’re in music lessons, you can make songs from that you can use it as an instrument. You can use it to do a lot of activities. If you’re a mom, you can use it just for the time that you’re spending with your child. So I’m talking about the things I do, but I’m so sure that also if you are an occupational therapist, or if you are a physical therapy, or even you are giving, like, psychological sessions, you can help in play therapy, art therapy. I’m also studying art therapy. Yeah, so I can’t tell you how amazing it’s it’s been not having to buy so much art materials because I can use even the fruit! I can paint with fruit! I can do the card of the cereal, it’s so amazing because in all the areas you can use it, that’s one thing.
The other is like, if you work not just with kids, but also with parents or even with other professionals, it’s amazing because you’ll learn how to give them like guidance and how to, how some things that maybe in their areas are going to be helpful. Also, I want to mention that I don’t know how the schools in other parts of the world are. But here, you don’t always have the access to all our materials, because the school can’t buy the materials. So if you want materials, as a teacher, you must buy them. But in this program, you’ll learn how to use anything, so you don’t have to. And also you can ask kids to bring stuff because they won’t have to buy anything. Those things are things that they have at home. So I really love that. I think that those are the major things. Also, it helps you see like a holistic approach! You see that “sing” is connected with “play,” “move,” and “talk.” And “talk” is connected with “play” and “move.” It’s everything connected. And it helps you to see that having these four pillars in mind, helps you see the child as one thing, not just like this area talk, let’s just talk, no! Talk and move and…
Ayelet: Right, because as you were saying, like each of those pillars, you can bring in and encourage all different areas of development, right. So if you’re using some part of class, like a Learn With Less® class that is dedicated to singing or music, you can see how that connects to supporting cognitive development, supporting communication development, supporting motor and sensory development, supporting social and emotional development. So all of those things are connected, as you said, Sara, and I love hearing that that is a value for you. Because for me, obviously, that’s a big part of how this was all created and formulated is really helping both families and professionals feel that interrelatedness and the holistic nature of early, early development in those first three years.
Sara: Also, in that line, you know, it’s not like the mind that changes because – it’s the practice, too! Because you have like the holistic approach in your mind, but then you learn how to plan to make this go to practice. And I love to have the four pillars, for example, you can take the four pillars and say, plan your therapy, and then in the month, reveal them and say, Okay, I feel like I wasn’t using the mood that much. So I’m gonna start using a little bit more than move, oh, this month, I didn’t use this one. So I’m gonna start using this more, and it helps you like to play with balance
Ayelet: for your own self as the professional, it’s that self reflection. That’s really great to hear. Thank you for sharing that. I remember back in the beginning, when you and I first spoke about, you know, you coming and joining in the program, you mentioned how the kinds of programs that are available in San Salvador, where you live, which is a large city with very diverse set of people socio economically, and you know, in all different ways, right? So I remember you mentioning that there were things like parent and child classes available that were more things like specifically in like a Waldorf philosophy or Montessori type classes.
I mean, obviously, we’ve touched upon this a little bit in general about how with Learn With Less®, you don’t need these specific materials, as you might in a different kind of philosophy types of classes. But I’m so curious to hear a little bit more about and obviously like that, Learn With Less®, again, you’re just using materials that the family already has for you, in your experience, both as a professional delivering these classes, and also the kinds of feedback that you receive from families. What was the response? What did people have to say? How did they feel about a program that focused on something very different?
Sara: Yeah. I love the question, because I think that sometimes it goes like underwater, you know, and yeah, you don’t realize about it. But I found that the parents feel more confident. They also like, learn to see the progress. Oh my God, that’s a very special thing in the program because you have to learn to see how kids responds to the activities in you have to learn how to name it and to affirm it and To given them the motivation to continue doing that, doing more of that. And the parents learn to do that, too. It’s not just me, they also do it and I receive messages of them like, these are the things that they did this week. There’s this, this, this this and they learn to do that. And the other thing that I love in I use a lot is the jest end.
Ayelet: Yes. And right, like we talked about in improv comedy, right. Can you explain it a little bit?
Sara: The “yes, and” is like a principal in the in, in the theater? Right?
Ayelet: Yeah, improvisational theater.
Sara: Yeah, yeah. And it’s awesome. Because it’s that one person says something or does something, and the other person has to affirm that thing that the other person did, and like to build from that, and expanded, it’s so awesome, because it really works in therapy, when a child is therapy, I mean, homerun in everything in any relationship. Yeah, and also be with your friends and everyone. When someone says something, Yes, you did. Blah, blah, blah. What if we do blah, blah, blah. It’s like, amazing how this works. And parents learn to do this. So they don’t have to be like, so worried about what activities to do? Because they just go with the child. And so, with their initiative…
Ayelet: Yes. Okay. So we can go in a couple different directions from here, because I was just a whole other settlement. So we’ll come back to this piece. But I want to talk just for a second to about how, again, I remember for you, in the beginning, you were thinking, well, not only is this really important for those families who can say afford a class that is like Montessori or those families who like know about these kinds of philosophies, which in general, I mean, let’s face it are often families who have means or access financially. That was tackling Yeah. Tell us more about how that played into your decision to join us.
Sara: I’m sorry that I get so excited. But it’s awesome because it’s like a cheaper approach to use. And it can sound weird because the families can access to that easier. And if you want to do I don’t know, like something as volunteer or something like that is easier because you are not using more money or using more resources to help families. So I think that it’s so awesome. Also that, you know, all these approaches that you mentioned, like Montessori, Waldorf, Gymboree, and a lot of those are so awesome. In for example, Montessori was created not just not for high class people, right, was great for everyone. And actually, everyone you know, but it has taken another like path, and it has gone to a specific population, and not all the people can afford that.
So I will love that people can access to this in a better price or sometimes even without having to pay and also that they can use a home. They don’t have to buy the materials that they say this other approach have to use, like wood and stuff. You know, you don’t have to buy that. So yeah, that that one thing that I really like. And I also think that it’s very attractive for organizations and foundations, foundations. Yeah, yeah. Because you can go to any area and help families letting them learn to because you know, we’re talking not just about kids education, we are also talking about parents and teachers education, in some places in this country. And I know that in every country, there’s people that wants to help their child but can’t because they don’t know how not just because they don’t have the resources but because they don’t know how. And if you go to a place you’re not given just like social help. You’re also like teaching and helping them build from what you give them. So yeah, that’s an amazing part of the program.
Ayelet: I’m curious to hear your perspective. Sorry about because I think a lot of times with this specific parenting philosophy, it centers one culture or one perspective, Western culture, for instance, right, but I’m very curious to hear like because culturally the family structure or the way that people behave in a family unit parenting culture and the perspective of for instance, el salvadorian parents versus a parent in New York City. Or Idaho or London or Cairo? Like is very different. Right? So how is it that this kind of structure works in El Salvador? Like, have you found that you had to adjust certain things from the classes? What What does that look like for you?
Sara: Yeah, I love because the classes can, I think that the development of the child is almost the same university, right? In any part of the world, you can have like the structure clear, but change what is inside. And I, for example, doing the translations. So the things that I had to adapt was music…
Ayelet: Like the specific songs for instance, right? Yeah, for example…
Sara: You can sing! Well, you can see anything in here we have something that works for a specific the same, and that people will feel comfortable doing because it’s not just about our let’s use national stuff, it’s about those things are national, because they connect with people here, not just because we are proud of being Salvadorian – that I am! – but also that because those things are here, because they connect with us. So music, also the use of some words, during the translation, it was interesting, too, that I was like, I have doubts to use this word or that word. But when I was talking with you, you said like, you can write it down as you will use it, and people can feel free to change it themselves when they need to. Right, that flexibility is awesome. Also, the use of materials, you know, if you don’t have to buy a specific type of cereal!
Ayelet: Right. As the facilitator, you don’t have to bring Rice Krispies box, right? It can be whatever.
Sara: It can be whatever. And also, if you’re going to paint with some fruit, you can use fruits that are in your country. Yes, it’s so easy, so simple, because the program gives you that flexibility. And also, I have to mention in the pandemic, I had to do my demo class online. And it really weren’t getting the work done. I did it with people in Ecuador. I also had people I think that Mexico I remember on Dora, yeah, Honduras, but it was amazing. And people here in El Salvador to It was awesome, because it worked in I call us the songs that we all we all understood and we all felt connected with. So yeah, I think that that those are the things but not just that you have to use these songs, or you have to do this the stuff you learn to adapt in. Yeah!
Ayelet: It’s like unstructured structure.
Sara: Yeah. Yeah. And as we said before, it’s like a change of mindset. So you change your mindset, you you’re able to adapt it to any circumstance and resource.
Ayelet: Yeah, I also wanted to go back and say, because we were talking about cereal boxes, it doesn’t have to be a cereal box, because not everybody in the world. It can be a cardboard box.
Sara: Yeah, whatever. And it was funny because some some words, I had to look for it. When I was writing the translation, I had to look for some things and see the picture and say like, what is the word is that you will never use that right? Why will I have to read it there if people…
Ayelet: Not even, right? And again, all of the all of the materials, it always says these are suggested something like this, right? So yeah, so you and I would talk about – because actually, I want to just make it very clear to people, Sara is the one of our facilitators who has been responsible for actually translating all of the activity plans, all of the parent handouts, everything that we have created into the Spanish language so that we have now not only for Sara, but for any one of our facilitators who does speak Spanish and would like to offer this program in another language to serve families whose primary language is Spanish or whose home language is Spanish or that they would like to even have just the handout in Spanish to refer to maybe for a family member or another caregiver.
So not only do we have those additional handout, kind of things that go home with parents for the learn with us program that have been translated, but also the entire program of the lesson plan. Each of those are now translated into Spanish. So anyone who is a facilitator who actually speaks Spanish and would like to serve families who also speak Spanish this can be done now in Spanish. So this is the first of many, many languages that we would like to do this for and Sarah, just to name this incredible feat that you have completed. You did all of that and I just I’m so grateful to you and again, like what you said about how you know because Salvadorian Spanish is different from Spanish in Mexico and it’s different from Spanish in Spain, right? So we know that there is flexibility. And you know, I think one of the things that you felt like, Oh, well, that’s okay. Like if I put the word “coche” for car, knowing that some families will say, “carro,” depending on where they are, it’s okay. And that the knowledge is that that facilitator who’s serving families in Spanish will know which one to use, and we can always adapt and shift as needed.
Sara: Yes. And I was thinking right now that sometimes when when you study and you’re preparing to give some specific service, your teachers tell you that you have to do a B, C, like specific steps and specific words. And when you go there, and you have to, that’s not how it works. And, and yeah, and that’s amazing, because, in this approach, you can make it your own way. It’s not only that you have to do it, like the way that your country does that, but also the way that you as a facilitator feel comfortable. Yeah, and you also it’s like a chain, a chain reaction, yeah, jewelry to do it that way. And you say, Okay, I don’t have to do it, as I gel, it does it. So I will do it my way. And parents say, I don’t have to do it the way Sara does it. So I can do it my way. And child’s calm and say, Oh, I don’t have to do it. The way Sara and my parents do that. So I will do it my own way. And they roll in that way. And they will teach it to the people they are with when they are older.
Ayelet: It is it’s that chain reaction that we’re all learning. And I mean, this is a big part of the Learn With Less philosophy, the Learn With Less program is is that lack of hierarchy, right? Like even for me, when I’m training everyone or the coaches that are training, we were all in the same boat, we’re all learning from each other. And then those Learn With Less facilitators who’ve been certified and out there doing what they’ve been doing, they then are very open and sharing of what’s working or not working for them. And we all problem solve. And it’s very useful to have also people who are, say, special educators like yourself, speech language pathologists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, early childhood educators, social workers, there’s so much variety and diversity within all of our experiences, that everyone also comes to it from a different place. But it is very much by design that what we are sharing with each other, and then what each of us is sharing with the families that we serve in each class is led by the group that is literally present in that moment. So it’s not like one person, as in you, the facilitator who’s teaching everybody how to do this one new thing, it’s everybody figuring it out together and learning from each other all the time.
Sara: Yeah, it’s funny, because you have the running of the session, when you’re doing it, and you say, okay, maybe I will take less time because of the activities that I have today. But when you go there times, just flies and because you join not just doing what the plan says that you have to do, you’re also doing what parents propose. And then and also what child’s indicate they want in their own way. So the session goes like, it’s an interesting game, an open ended session, you know, it’s it’s very interested in having that in mind also helps so much with confidence, and it helps you just like, okay, we have to move, we have to know you don’t have to, you can stay there in the child’s are learning from what you’re doing. So continue where you are.
Ayelet: Right? And there’s always ways to integrate the other pieces into that specific activity, right. Like you said, if you’re finding that everyone is really enjoying these materials, and it’s already been 20 minutes, you can just continue with those materials and move into maybe you were in the same section. And now we can keep doing the same thing, but maybe Okay, how could we do this? If we’re just talking and and integrating more movement? What can we do here with the same materials and continuing on with with what’s being enjoyed in that way? So yeah, I love that. It’s true. It is, as we said, it’s an unstructured structure. There’s so much flexibility within the lesson plan, but it is recognizable still. Yes!
Sara: And also in terms of approaches that we were talking about that before. So just like tell you what to do, and we do what materials maybe to do it. But gear is awesome because you learn how to give the explanation about what what you did. They was important, right? And that’s amazing because you don’t want parents to do things just because you say you have to do and parents that know what they are doing. And and it’s not like magic tools or something like that you’re not given them something magic that if you would do it like this, and that will work not you’re giving them science. Yeah, you’re telling them why that is important. And why do they have to do and also when they know why they’re doing that the brain says like, Oh, so I can do this. Another thing. And this Another thing is that like to see the progress in the child’s easier.
Ayelet: I wonder if you have any specific examples in your head of that when they realize like, Oh, that’s what I just did, or that’s even what I’ve already been doing.
Sara: One example is when Barla talk to us that for the child to have the words and to expand like the vocabulary and to make structures in their head about what they doing. And when you explain that to the parents, they are able to do it, actually, they sometimes do it naturally, right. But when you know that these words for something, you start doing it more or more intentional, and you start to take their little moments and make them special and useful. Also, I was thinking about the joint attention is something that parents, they do it naturally. But when they know that these exist, and it’s part of the development, they start doing more stuff and start learning also that they just don’t have to take their child to see what they see. But they can join to the things that the child is paying attention. So I think that those two are examples of things that I’ve seen in in the room in this room. But also that parents have told me that they’re doing more and sometimes, for example, if the kid is playing with soil, and so I don’t know, like, say 123 and then throws…
Ayelet: The dirt all over the place. Yeah.
Sara: Yeah. So when the parent know that to say what they’re doing works, they do it. And then the other day that the kid is playing with toil, the kid starts using the words that the parent were using when he was playing. So I think that it’s it’s so awesome how this work and knowing that this is not magic, it’s just like the brain working in some way.
Ayelet: I love how you said that. That’s great. You’ve said so much around this topic already. But I’d love to just hear from you or perspective also about the value for parents and caregivers that are coming to these classes, like how do you define that both for yourself and your own mind? And also, how have you come? Because we do of course, as you very well know, a lot of work around this in the program to help professionals market their classes and to help share that value with families that they hope will come and attend their classes. So for you How do you define the value for parents and caregivers who want to join you in this experience of your Learn With Less class?
Sara: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is the confidence that’s like the greatest value because especially when people is like foreign for the first time, they feel so afraid of so many things. So this gives them like the confidence know that some things happen naturally. And the other things that does happen naturally, you can learn and do it also to connect what they do instinctively with the things that they’re learning. And they are taken years also all the things that we talked, I think that are related with the parenting work. And yeah, for example, the materials, especially a mom, when she just gave birth, she The last thing she wants to do is leave her baby and go to jump in and go and buy a lot of things. The thing that she wants to do is be with her baby. And this program gives her the opportunity that she won’t need anything he can be with her child and use whatever she has at home. Especially when she’s tired to Yes, yeah. He has you know about so valuable to give them that in total them. You don’t have to worry if you don’t have a specific toys because you have your home and you have your device and you have your hands and the other value is that they can when they’re looking for a location for their kids.
They can look for what they want and they are able to see when there’s freedom for the child or when there’s not in a school, and to find like, the best place to do that, or to do it themselves at home, you know, the benefit is not just like, Oh, I can do this. But also you have the tools. And here are some extra tools. If you didn’t know about this, there’s the question that I really love in the program. And it is, have you ever done these that activity? Have you ever done this, like the giant attention? And the answer is yes, I actually did it. And the other question is, where or when, in what moments? Can you do it more? Yeah. And so it’s this connection is so so rich, that those are some of the benefits. And I know that there’s a lot more because as we said that we are everyone so different. Also people get so different things from the program. We will I think that not all parents get the same definitely.
Yeah, no other thing that I found with the parents I work is that some parents come here being so expressive and telling me everything, but others are like, like shy, and they are like maybe at the beginning, like afraid to tell me that things because they think that I know a lot. And they don’t. But actually when when I start using this things, they start saying like they can communicate with me that if they communicate with me, the work will be better. So given them the possibility to talk and to say, Yes, I’ve done these in these situations in I think that I can do it more in these other situations, or I have these and I don’t know how to use it, you know that the possibility to talk, it’s so amazing. And you don’t have it always end. Other thing is that the parent is there, right? So they’re not just helping the child’s role, but they’re going hand in hand with them. They’re growing together and seeing and being present in the process, not just the things that they’re learning, but also the connection that they can have that makes it.
Ayelet: Yes, so amazing. Well, I also think, because I actually I just opened up our like spreadsheet about the feedback that you’ve gotten. And I wanted to touch upon this piece, because a few of your responses from families mentioned, I really liked when we talk about our highs and lows and make comments together in the group. And this is actually a piece that we haven’t even touched on that is such a value to families of the program. But I wanted to bring it up because literally one of your respondents, one of your participants said that that was something that they loved about the class is that community peace of being in community with other families, for the parents, and for the children? Can you talk a little bit about that, especially you did a lot of this in the pandemic, right virtually. And parents still found that piece of being together and the value of community was so strong and so enriching. So I would love to hear a little bit more about that from you.
Sara: I think that parenting was never meant to be a solo thing. It was always created to be as a community. And we have lost that in the in, in the contemporary world. So I think that when parents face this and realize the possibility of talking without being judged that they find that it’s not just what they do with their childhood that is important, but also what they feel and what they need. And also when they do things great to you know, to share it with other people and help others because helping others is a part of the human being. And when parents are able to help another person that is in the same way that they are they also grow and feel better. You know, this emotional area is so important. And it’s not just the kids that connect with each other because sometimes parents go to a group thinking for my child to talk with other kids.
But it’s so important that parents connect with other parents. You know, I think that it’s because being with other parents helped them to communicate without restriction. Sometimes parents are so careful when they share with other person that it’s no parent or when they go to a home they are like apologizing a lot or when people come home. They apologizing for the tie, so and for anything that happens, you know, but when you’re with other parents, they can feel completely free and understand that what they’re going through is normal. And that if they need the help they can ask it to, and that it’s normal to have a hard time doing some things. And yeah, I know that the benefit of being in community is not just that you can see other people and talk with other people, but also that you can realize a lot of things about yourself and help others that we do naturally.
Ayelet: Sharing the load in some ways. Yeah, yeah.
Sara: I want to mention that that review is for the first time I did a class. Yes. So people didn’t know parents didn’t know the other parents that were in the session.
Ayelet: They were all strangers. Yes.
Sara: Yeah. They were all strangers. And they all felt comfortable to chair I now I remember that they told us about to two families have two kids sick. And they told the group that and been there and you know, and it was not receiving advice, right? That was so awesome. Because it was not, I didn’t tell them what to do, because of their kids being sick. And other parents didn’t tell them what to do. And not to have their child sick, just like to express that and not having to be strong. Right? Just to be here for them was awesome. And it’s amazing to think about that they were all strangers.
Ayelet: And and it wasn’t even enough in a room together. It was in a Zoom Room, literally in a room online in the internet world. Yeah, I don’t remember. I mean, I would love to know from you to like, what do you think is the reason why they were able to do that? Like, what about the class about you as a facilitator about the structure of it all about how you shared what would happen in the class, even before leading it? Like all of those are the ways that we teach how to create that environment and Learn With Less? But how did you create that?
Sara: I think that I think that first of all, receiving them happy, and being happy to be with them and being genuine to say that you are happy to have them there. Also, the other thing that maybe sounds crazy, is in the Hello song, do you say hello to the parents too, because the session is not just for the kids. So I think that that also says, Oh, so I’m supposed to participate and to have fun too, because when you’re playing with a kid, and you’re not having fun, you know, just been part of our life, to make the play locked into play, yeah. And also given them the permission to participate in the level they want to participate. Not saying like you have to do this, you have to do that. No, just letting them be the person they are because their child doesn’t need another person, they need them as the person they are giving them the permission to do that. Also, given the space, like the name and say it out loud, like you can say anything when you want it. And if you don’t feel comfortable, you can do this or that. Or this is the moment to say our highs and lows. And you know, it was not like this just happened. No, you gave them the space and you told them that that was the time to do that.
But you know, like giving them that attention, like one on one. I think that also helps you have to affirm that what they were doing was amazing. For example, one thing that I love is when for example, the kid is moving a checker in your name, oh, you’re judging the checker and you’re moving it, they’re making music. And when the parent takes another thing without you telling them you can also name that. And when you named what the parent is doing, the parent says, Oh, I’m doing this great. Right? Yes. So I like the details. And another thing I remember now is I sent like three emails. Yep. And those emails were powerful because they had the information of the materials that were things that they had at home, but also had information about please be on the floor Be prepared to play and don’t worry, you don’t have to do this or that or in any moment. You can do these with your camera you can turn it off if you need to. Yeah, you can move the important thing is not that I see you but that you are doing them right you know you can even give this session when they’re coming off you can do so given them like the space aplenty space you know like to move and not add as specific way or as specific snow, they can do it however they want.
And you say that a lot of things in this session, I repeated a lot of things. And the same thing you do in in the session with parents, you repeat and repeat the things, repeat the things. And for example, I can say, you can feel comfortable doing this or that in other moments, you can feel comfortable not to do this, you can feel comfortable to do this if you want. But you know, in repeating that word, make something inside of them that they feel so comfortable to be in community and to share later, because they are part of the group. And I’m not the authority because they’re doing the job. So that’s another thing that I always start saying that they’re like, 40 minutes with me, but I live with them. A complete week with the child. So they know I say this a lot that they know better. They kids and me. So that is like, as one day mom asked me, it’s okay that my kids watch this program. And my response was, I don’t know what that program is. But you can go with your instinct. What does your instinct say. And when I asked them to teach me, it makes something inside of them that they can feel free. They live or what they like, and to share the highest highs and lows and all that things.
Ayelet: Right? Because you’re not judging them, you’re not telling them something that’s right or wrong, or even giving them advice to do the next thing, you’re just holding the space and letting them feel and be who they are. And even
Sara: when you are given the instruction journal saying we are gonna do this, you are saying I invite you to do that. And I invite you just that the words. I don’t know whether it’s
Ayelet: an invitation. Yeah.
Sara: Yes, an invitation and knowing that they can say no, right. And I love that they Learn With Less program is not just the four pillars, but also some principles. I think that that knowing that you can give an opportunity just to recreate a space, you don’t have to make the kid do a specific thing. Just I’m making the space. So if the kid doesn’t do something, it’s okay. Because they didn’t have to. So that gives the parents a lot of confidence that it is not them that are doing something wrong. But it’s just that the kid didn’t want to do it in that moment in that’s perfectly fine. Yes. Did you know In the therapy room, it also is amazing, because parents sometimes are like, but why? Why doesn’t my child to do this? And when is he going to do this? How many sessions Do you know, but I say here, I’m not making them do things, I’m just opening a space and giving them the opportunity. And that’s what you have to do. So you have to let go that responsibility, because it’s not your responsibility to just have to give the space, this space is what you have to do. And the other things will happen.
Ayelet: Yeah, thank you. For that side, I’d love to also hear just as we sort of close out, because I’ve taken up a lot of your time already. But I want to hear just a little bit about you know how Learn With Less has impacted you in your life within the program and even outside of the program and how you’re using it not only within the classes, but now also in other parts of your life.
Sara: Yeah, I think that with my friends that are moms, it’s amazing to sit and talk, you know, like not not like a professional, but I will always be a professional even when I’m not doing my work. But I think that the confidence, the confidence that I can I can do the things my own way. And to value my culture, for example, is another thing that actually you have helped me to do more, because you feel that every culture is valuable. And it is a that’s another thing. And as we said some principles like the “yes, and” – it’s something that I’ve learned with the conversations even with my husband, and with everyone because yeah, it’s something that every human needs. So it helps to communicate better. I feel that I’m more creative person because I have to improvise more in the therapy room. So I have to – and in the sessions have Learn With Less so now I can do songs and any song is okay. Yeah, I know. And also about the things that the way I think, have changed, for example, that I thought a lot of the materials for the sessions, but not what is in the kitchen. I don’t have something and now my mind says there must be another thing that can work for that. And it’s amazing to think about that.
Ayelet: Yeah, I think you’re so much more flexible in your own thinking.
Sara: It helps you to be more flexible person. And, you know, I also went when I was in the calls with the other facilitators, we all were in different places, most of them in United States, but other there were Canada, and but we all had a lot of ideas, and we all value connecting with other people and feeling that we are all the same even when we don’t use the same words, or we don’t use the same materials or asking when I don’t understand something like asking them. And you know, it’s it’s so awesome. Yeah. And you know, like, I think that realizing that, yes, you can find inspiration in a lot of places, maybe on Instagram, Pinterest and a lot of places, but you cannot find inspiration inside of yourself. So use that inspiration to create and for your work and also your home, and your friends… and yeah, it’s amazing.
Ayelet: Thank you for that. It’s, I’m so happy you feel that way. Is there anything else that you would like to share just from the heart with our listeners here today?
Sara: You know, I think that maybe that I’m very thankful for this opportunity, not just because of the possibility to give sessions, but because how this changes you as a person and as a therapist or a teacher or whatever, you know, I say therapy or teacher because I do both! But yeah, that that opportunity was so awesome. And I want to repeat this: that if you’re thinking to enter to the program, and you’re evaluating the possibility, just don’t think as specifically, what are you going to do when you finish the program, just let yourself learn in the way and find out how that’s going to work. And also that I’m so thankful, not just for the materials, and the videos, and the audios and all the things we had to read and all the things but also being part of the Facebook group was so amazing, because you have a support group, or you can ask whatever you need, and you can give whatever you have. And really I just want to replicate that someday to have a group where I can help people as as you actually do. And as all the facilitators do.
Ayelet: Yeah, right. Because we try to replicate literally what we’re trying to create for parents so that you can feel that you can feel supported, you can feel like you have a place to ask all the questions. And like you were saying earlier, it’s this, I guess you could call it like a waterfall effect, right? Like you were describing it as a chain reaction to like where you have all of the facilitators are getting what they need, so that they can then pass it down to the parents so that they can then pass it down to the children. And then you are creating this whole social impact and human impact and community impact in communities all over the world. So yes.
Sara: And when you’re like preparing us as Learn With Less facilitators, you are not just, like, reading materials, or listening to things or listening to you, but you are also seeing other people implement the program themselves, and you are able to give them feedback and you are able to receive feedback. So I know it happens that [sometimes] when you are learning, you have… you know how to do that! Because you have never seen someone doing it. You are like confused and afraid. But in this program, you can see and also do it in also talk about it. So it’s like a very complete program.
Ayelet: I love to hear that. Thank you. Thank you for being part of it. We’re so happy. And I’m just I’m so thankful to be in community with you. I’m so grateful for now our friendship.
Sara: I really hope to work with you more because it was so awesome. Any it wasn’t just pray that it was to do the things and learn, but also to be able to talk with you and have all the learning just from talking and all the comfort of being here. Thank you. You don’t have to be like any specific kind of human you can just be up here. And that’s amazing.
Ayelet: Thank you. That means a lot to hear.
Sara: I really love this. I really love this and I’m so thankful for you and all the things that you do I and I really admire you a lot.
Ayelet: Thank you. Well, thank you so much for your time today and all of the energy you’ve given the this program over the last year plus, and we’re just so thankful. Thank you.
